'73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:54 am

Got the entire rest of the boom prepped and primed and started back on the mainframe / operator station. It will be raining all day today so perfect time to rebuild the power steering pump since my remaining 3 parts are "out for delivery" right now. Then I'm thinking Tues and Wed to finish prep on the mainframe and shoot the hoe OCY on Thursday (if it's not too windy).

I thought long and hard about using the stretchy seat covering but that would have only been a temp fix anyways so I'm opting to go with a new aftermarket seat, just trying to choose one that will be comfortable and mount with a least amount of fabrication.

Has anyone here ever put an aftermarket seat on a 93.. hoe and know of one that would bolt up nicely to the bracket without too much trouble? Would love suggestions, especially if you've done this before and have some lessons learned.

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:29 pm

Ok, got the parts, tore pump apart and here is what I found...

The first step is to remove the metering valve and spring which was surprisingly in pristine condition. Next is separating the pump cover from the pump body which went fairly smoothly and that's when I noticed it... looks like the last person to rebuild this pump didn't read the instructions and used some kind of gasket material (albeit a thin layer) between the main sections of the pump which is supposed to be metal on metal (with an o-ring style washer/packing, basically a thin square o-ring) between the pump sections. This is likely why the pump was leaking profusely, not because of a blown or misplaced o-ring. I mic'd out all the specs from the book... the gears measured like they are brand new (both OD and thickness), the shafts also measured like new. The shafts that the gears are keyed to ride inside bronze (perhaps oilite) bearings on either side of each gear. The idler gear's "cover bearing" measured fine and idler gear's "base bearing" also falls within specs, the drive gear's "cover bearing" was good BUT the drive gear's "base bearing" was a few tenths out of spec and didn't look or feel amazing (i've seen better and definitely seen worse). This is the bearing that sits between the drive gear that is inside and part of the pump action and the drive gear that is outside of the pump that engages with the engine's drivetrain (the oil seal also also between these two gears obviously). The drive shaft measures out like new (even where it rides on the bearing) but there are 2 distinct grooves that line up perfectly with the two contact points of the oil seal. I am not sure whether these grooves are there by design or if they were worn in. I find it hard to believe that a rubber seal (which still felt good and not "petrified" could wear grooves into a shaft like that so I'm leaning towards the "by design" theory. In a perfect world I would order a new drive shaft or at least get my eyes on a new one to see if the grooves are normal or not but a new one (by you guessed it, good ol' Hartville Hardware) runs $350! As far as the bearings go, the book it says "if the bearings are out of specs or damaged, replace the entire base". Well, I can't find a new base (or used for that matter) anywhere so that is out of the question for now.

What I will be doing is thoroughly cleaning everything and putting it back together with a new seal, new o-rings/packing, new connectors (also with new o-rings) and re-installing the pump into the machine and praying everything works out fine. It won't be perfect but it should do the job and do it well. Besides, it's not like I'm putting it back in to service in a construction business or anything, it will only see me as the operator.

Outside of the one bushing being slightly out of spec and the questionable shaft grooving, I was pleasantly surprised at how clean and new the pump was inside. Time now to go get it cleaned up and put back together.

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by dtoots1 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:29 am

Cordless,
Did you happen to think of having them send pic of the shaft to just see what "new" looks like and ask if has the groove? Leastways if does you can feel a bit more comfortable.
nice work by the way

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:51 am

dtoots1 wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:29 am
Cordless,
Did you happen to think of having them send pic of the shaft to just see what "new" looks like and ask if has the groove? Leastways if does you can feel a bit more comfortable.
nice work by the way
I did send HH a message but am not holding my breath, I've asked them for pics in the past and they came back with a sob story about how many parts they have, etc... :cry: , maybe I'll get lucky and someone who cares about their customers answers the email, ya never know. There are no grooves shown in the JD parts breakdown but that's not saying much.

I finished the re-assembly of the pump, it went very smoothly. The seal was a bugger to get out but it finally submitted. As a note for future PS pump rebuilders, take note (I would make a witness mark) of depth and alignment regarding the set screw in the end of the metering valve. They don't talk about this in the pump repair section, they only refer you to another section for post op testing which is where they tell you to put a 0-500 psi gauge on the pressure line and you'll basically run it in short spurts in "relief mode" until you get the pump dialed in to the correct pressure range. I'll have to do this anyways but I didn't realize the set screw in the end of the metering valve was adjustable until after the pump had been disassembled and cleaned. When disassembling it, the set screw felt like it was seated so I didn't think about it (it has threadlock on it). If I screwed it in too far, the pressure will be too high, if not enough, the pressure will be too low. I will run the test after instal and no leaks and see where it sits and to find out how good my memory was of the disassembly haha.

Yesterday I was able to get most of the mainframe of the hoe prepped for paint, today I'll finish it up and if I have time I'll re-install the pump and put the front end back together for another test run. Still on track for shooting the hoe on Thursday (depending on whether the weather cooperates or not).

Feeling good about the pump rebuild but not 100% since I couldn't replace that one bearing and not sure about the grooves in the drive shaft. The bad part about the drive shaft is that the only way to tell if it is leaking by is to keep a close eye on my engine oil level, if it leaks by the seal, it would likely be a very slow leak and would be leaking by right into the gear-train area.

~ Darrell

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:55 pm

Got the rest of the hoe prepped, primed and ready for paint tomorrow. I will still have a little bit left to paint that I can't reach in it's current state but that's small potatoes.

After all the hoe and hoe parts prep and priming was complete I installed the power steering pump but but ran out of light so I'll put the rest of it together tomorrow after I shoot the hoe. If all goes well I should be able to fire it back up tomorrow afternoon and hopefully be leak free.

Doesn't sound like a lot but it was exhausting to say the least. Tomorrow is supposed to be 65˚, overcast and not much wind... should make for a good paint day.

In case anyone is curious, I ended up buying backhoe lever grips from Grainger, they were reasonably priced and surprisingly well made. $4 ea for the short ones that go on the stabilizers and $9 ea for the longer ones for hoe operation. I also ended up buying a seat set for the backhoe from RAP, I'll let y'all know how the mounting goes. I'm 100% sure I'll have to make a bracket or two to mount it to the original flip up seat frame but it shouldn't be too bad.

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:23 am

Cordless,
send me their part number for that shaft...i can make a trip and get photos of it in my cell an shoot them to you...my cell shows up in my ad for my jd440 in Lavoys parts forum at bottom of first section of forums...think it is also in the "pic server" instructions as well

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:34 am

dtoots1 wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:23 am
Cordless,
send me their part number for that shaft...i can make a trip and get photos of it in my cell an shoot them to you...my cell shows up in my ad for my jd440 in Lavoys parts forum at bottom of first section of forums...think it is also in the "pic server" instructions as well
Thanks dtoots! The part number is AR39061. If you can send to my email, that would be best (cordlesscarpenter@gmail.com)

I wish I had a JD dealer near by but... I don't lol

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:43 am

Nearly got complete with the first coat of OCY on the hoe yesterday and while letting my 3rd pot cook it started raining... WHAT! It wasn't suppose to rain until later today... I got ALL 5% of the rain. No point in crying about it, I just cleaned the gun and will take a look at it in a bit. It looked like the first coat had dried enough to repel all the rain but I'll like give it a light sand and put the next coat on when weather permits.

I got the rest of the machine put back together and am ready to turn the key again this morning, I ran out of light by the time I finished.

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:00 am

Fired her up... NO leaks! Turns out rebuilding the power steering pump isn't rocket science after all.

Had an issue with the tachometer but got it resolved, the engine end of the cable wasn't crimped well enough and was spinning freely in certain positions. Crimped it down real good and i'm back in business.

Got the throttle cable/linkage adjusted properly and right now it's low idle is at 700 rpm, I need to look up what the rpm should be for what I am calling low idle (operator lever all the way down). If anyone already knows the settings and wants to save me some time, pipe in with the answer :D

Feels SOOOOO good to have zero leaks, not just on the power steering system but I mean there are zero leaks on the whole machine (so far). Granted, she hasn't been running very long, hydraulics are not even hooked up yet, nor has she moved but it's looking good. And being able to run the engine at a lower rom is super nice lol.

Weather is looking good enough to give the hoe another coat after lunch and a run into town.

Things are finally looking up around here, so excited!

Next step will be hydraulics (pressure side), get the cylinders in place and hooked up, test and go from there (praying the piping is all good and no leaks). The piping looks iffy BUT it was all working when I bought it AND the cylinders were still holding the hoe and bucket up in the air after 9 months! So there is HOPE and that's huge.

B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by B Town » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:48 am

Idle is 850.

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:26 pm

B Town wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:29 pm
There is a set screw on the motor side of the injection pump. The set screw has a jam nut, this is what you need to adjust to get full throttle range. Idle is 850 IIRC.
Ha, was reading back through and felt like an idiot for not remembering...

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:32 pm

850, got it, thanks Bruce! Coincidentally, that's where it was after my first adjustment but my buddy thought it was suppose to be lower so we went lower to 700 and it was too low, gave me a feeling like it wasn't going fast enough for the oil pump to do it's job correctly (hence why I asked). Didn't run it very long at those rpm's so I'm not worried about it. I'll knock it back up and be done with it.

In between coats right now, no rain on radar but it sure fell out of the sky AGAIN! two days in a row I wanted to smack the weatherman silly. Thankfully it was just a two second sprinkle and I finished the cup.

Oh, and Hartville Hardware sent me a pic of the questionable power steering pump drive shaft but it was a pic of the parts breakdown page haha... :roll:

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:33 pm

Cordless,
will be making trip to Hartville in a.m.

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:22 am

dtoots, don't make the trip just on my account brother, but if you're going anyways, that's cool, thanks! I wish they weren't 5 hours away lol.

Got a couple good coats on the hoe yesterday... might have one more coat left to do but it was getting dark as I finished so I need to assess in the daylight. I'll probably give it one more coat anyways, kinda like once you think you're done, give it one last coat and you're golden (pun)

This morning I'm going to attack the hydraulic's pressure side and get the cylinders lifted into position and hopefully get the system tested today if all goes smoothly but we all know how that goes.

~ Darrell

dtoots1
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 am
Location: akron, ohio

Re: '73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:02 pm

Cordless,
Well they sure don't stock them at all, mostly just running the lawnmowers and maybe a few wheel tractors....ended up i got to see drawing on screen of what it looked like, just exactly what they sent you!...Think that applies to all JD dealers hereabouts...mostly farm equipment.Got chance to go to the FLEA Maarket just behind them...probly close to 1000 booths...no luck in finding any strap hinges so got to do a long walk in sunshine!!!

Have to order from MaDeere

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: drssink and 57 guests