'73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

[cordlesscarpenter]

Any pictures?

If it wasn't such a huge pain to post photos on the forum I would but it is literally that frustrating, enough for me to not do it. If you (or anyone) wants to shoot me a personal email address in a PM, I'd be happy to share photos that way. I wish I could do it right here, I just can't, my sanity means more to me.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Got all the piping, linkage rods, and other miscellaneous parts sprayed yellow yesterday. Was also able to press the old shafts out of the upper carrier roller support... even with my 12 ton arbor press it needed heat to break it loose, it must be an interference fit as would be expected , i'll be measuring the two shafts as well as the holes before pressing the new shafts in.

Here's a question I have for y'all, I have a few pipes that are "suspect" with previous braze/weld repairs and some pipes with pitting that I'd rather not take a chance with as they will be the "hard to get to" pipes once everything is put back together. Where do you all go to get new hard piping made up with the right fittings? Having hoses made up is common place for me but replacing hard piping is a new one on me. Would a hose place typically have the capability to make hard lines too? Just getting a feeler out there on how you guys replace hard lines with the right fitting and such. Also, I'll likely need to have new hard lines made up for the hydraulic power steering assist system since my system in the engine compartment doesn't exist and nobody has the right piping.

Another question... My fuel tank isn't completely rusted out or anything, it's actually not bad off but would still like to get any rust, debris and sludge out of the tank and start out with a good clean tank, how do you all clean your tanks? I am thinking about basically dangling it upside down from the forks of the tractor and pressure wash it from both ends then completely fill the tank with a solution of vinegar & water and or maybe evaporust or CLR (something like that), let it sit for a few days ( especially because, if i'm not mistaken, there's a baffle inside) and then use the old chain trick back and forth then pressure wash again until free of debris and water is clear, what do y'all think?

While the pipe and other parts cure, I will be looking at getting the backhoe bracket, hydraulic and battery box back up and mounted but before I do that, I need to address the bracket/plate that holds the air intake filter canister (between your feet) because all 4 bolts were seized and if I have to rip it out and weld in a new one I'd rather do that before the boxes are in the way. And so the fun of assembly continues haha.

[77 Ford]

I replaced my hard pipe that runs front to rear of my 450c with just hydraulic hose and a few fittings. Now I have something I can remove and replace if needed. I realize you 're going for a restoration and want it to look right but I think it's more practical with hose. Just my 2 cents.

[boaterri]

I have had several lines repaired simply by cleaning and brazing. Cracks and suspect pits were filled and have shown no signs of weakness.
Probably would only replace them if crushed or severed.

Rick

[cordlesscarpenter]

True, I could just run hoses but that would be a second choice hard lines, especially for the under belly lines. Unfortunately the areas with pitting are fairly large and only make sense to replace instead of repair.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Still trying to decide how I'm going to circumvent the hyd steering assist system since I can't seem to find a salvage machine... still hoping one pops up somewhere soon. If you have or know of anyone that has a late model 450B that they'd part out this system from, please let me know.

For future people doing this, I'll share what I did with the piping to ensure they're all free of debris... I simply put each one in a jawhorse and used my pressure washer to run pressurized water through them (a good 10 seconds from each side), then blew them dry with compressed air. They are all sitting near the wood stove inside to let any moisture evaporate. I'll let them sit there until tonight then cover the ends with masking tape until they get installed.

I was on the fence about rebuilding the 4 main hydraulic cylinders but have essentially decided the only wise move is to rebuild them now while all of them are off the machine. The job would take 10 times longer should they need rebuilding once the machine is in operation.

I also pressed the new shafts into the upper roller supports, masked them off and repainted them (they needed heat for both removal and instal and were charred)

I've also addressed that lower plate on the cowl where the air cleaner mounted between your legs and apparently the early model 450B air cleaner (with both inlet and outlet piping coming out of the top) that I salvaged and restored is not the same as the late model 450B air cleaner (with inlet from the pre-cleaner on top but the outlet to the intake exit is out the back, like a 450C) so now I have to decide whether to make a bracket to mount this one lower or try and find a correct air cleaner and intake hose for a late model 450B. If you're ever working on a 450B, learn from my mistake and make sure you know whether you have an early or late model because there are quite a few differences.

Next I'll be mounting the backhoe bracket and lifting the side boxes on... that's the plan anyways, we'll see if something else comes to mind that needs to be done before that.

That's one thing that people forget (me included) when re-assembling such a large project, some parts need to be re-assembled in a certain order or you'll spend a lot of time removing what you've already installed because something else goes underneath it, behind it or is interference for installing another piece of the puzzle. So needless to say, I spend a lot of brain time making sure I minimize this best I can.

Cheers my fellow Crawlers!

[boaterri]

While you have the booms/lift towers apart change all the hoses and inspect the hard lines as well. It is much easier to work on when disassembled. i recently had to change one hose so while I was dirty/greasy/gooey, and had things partially disassembled I did all of them.

Rick

[cordlesscarpenter]

While you have the booms/lift towers apart change all the hoses and inspect the hard lines as well. It is much easier to work on when disassembled. i recently had to change one hose so while I was dirty/greasy/gooey, and had things partially disassembled I did all of them.

Rick

Rick,

Thanks for the reply... so far I've had every single hyd hose on the machine replaced, working on having the hoses built for the backhoe and 4-1 bucket now.

Also, ALL hard piping on the machine (all systems, including hydraulics) have been pulled, pressure washed (inside), blow down with compressed air, dried out by the fire and capped until instal. All hard lines have also been brought down to bare metal, etched and re-painted OC Yellow.

There were a few of the pipes inside the loader pockets/lift towers that had some pitting but there's really nothing I can do about it outside of having new pipes made and I haven't been able to locate a place that even provides that service. No doubt most salvage units will have a similar issue not to mention the cost involved if it were not local. Believe me, I wish I had brand new piping but unfortunately, unless I come up with a viable solution, they'll likely be installed the way they are.

My goal is to have the machine fully back together and operational by spring (Montana spring when the snow is gone at 5k feet, think May). Needless to say, with as many challenges as I already have to find my way through, a slowdown like learning how to be a pipe-fitter and rebuilding the piping myself just isn't going to happen.

As a last resort so to speak, I'm good with ideas like what has been suggested already and replace hard piping with hose where necessary but in pinch points like the loader pockets, I believe hard lines will fair better. If one leaks, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there and most likely do just that... replace with hose.

I was rained out today, so to speak... the machine is covered and dry but the boxes will have to be moved through mud if I did it right now so mounting the side boxes is on hold for a day or two. Instead, I started work on the dash. I have a full set of decent gauges which I can use once cleaned up but when it comes to temps and pressures, I'm more a fan of hard piped real gauges that give true temps and pressures verses the sensor type dummy gauges so I'll have to decide which way to go on that soon.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Quick update:

I have decided to go with original gauges since they all seem to be in working order and in really good shape and it's what I have on hand (I thing this cluster might be out of a 450C though, oh well). If they crap out on me or fail to work properly, I'll replace them with live gauges. But all in all, the dash is progressing nicely.

I tried and tried... and tried some more, to force the new seals onto the pistons for the track adjusters, I even cussed A LOT but it didn't help , in fact I ruined one of the seals in the process . So I broke down and went online in search of the elusive JD 284-1/2/3 specialty seal driver kit they show in the manual with absolutely zero hopes of actually finding one but I did! Both the driver set and new seals arrived today. Once I get both assemblies together and installed, the entire undercarriage will be complete minus putting on the chain and track pads, those will be the last things to go on the machine since they'll do nothing but get in the way, they are however standing by in the comfort of the barn.

So glad I'm at this point and all the ridiculous filthy work of rust removal and paint prep is over... that was months and months of constant filth that seemed to drag on forever! However, I've still got a long ways to go before I drive her out of the shack so back to the crawler shack I go...

[cordlesscarpenter]

Got both track adjuster assemblies assembled mounted today, filled the cylinders with diesel for an hour or so then lightly honed all the gook off the cylinder walls, cleaned the cylinder with acetone, filled the bottom with grease as well as the upper half of the cylinder walls, greased the piston, seal and driver tools & drove the seals on the piston and joined the two halves. The seal installation tool set (JD-284) was worth EVERY SINGLE penny... ZERO frustration! The seals slid on to the pistons perfectly, with ease and the tool to join the piston to the cylinder worked flawlessly. I had just painted the piston's rear half and if I had used the wiper seal driver to finish the job it would have messed up the paint so I seated the wiper with a punch like I usually do but the wiper seal driver was a perfect fit to the seal.

I also got both upper carrier roller supports along with their respective rollers mounted and torqued to specs, just need to fill with 30 weight.

Undercarriage is complete until I'm ready for the tracks!

Still waiting for my flywheel to finish getting re-surfaced so I can begin clutch work, stab the engine in and get busy on the rest up front so until then, I'll be working on the boxes, tank, etc.

Can't remember if I mentioned it or not but I also found a yard a few hours away that say they have all final missing parts I need so that's huge... waiting for pics of the list of parts I sent then I'll be making a trip.

Definitely feels like progress is happening more quickly now, hopefully it keeps coming in a similar fashion from here on out.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Backhoe bracket, side box & fuel tank brackets were mounted yesterday as well as more work on the dash and gauge cluster.

Today will be a smidge of painting of the first gauge and other small parts as well as installing all the new hoses for the steering assist cylinders, assess and clean up/replace the hardware for the side boxes and tank because they are next up for mounting.

Still need to clean the inside of the fuel tank so it will be the last of the three to make it back on top.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Got the flywheel back from re-surfacing yesterday and began the long grueling process for properly adjusting the pressure plate. Then unmounted it from the flywheel, got both sections nice and cleaned up, pressed on the new throwout bearing and got the engine from the barn. Mounted the flywheel to the crankshaft then aligned and mounted the drive plate and pressure plate (not forgetting to brake clean the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces). At this point I measured the pressure plate adjustment fingers again for diligence sake and am glad I did, even though I was careful in the mounting, the adjustment changed slightly after re-mounting. It wasn't very much difference at all but I'm super anal when it comes to mating important components like this and so I adjusted it again and now, all is right as rain.

Then came mounting the engine in to the clutch housing... everything went rather smoothly actually, TIP: if you pull the left side bung hole plug on the clutch housing you can semi watch the action to know you are aligned properly. Stabbing an engine is always a bit stressful for me with all that money, hopes and dreams dangling from a chain but thankfully it went off without a hitch and the engine is in her new home.

I searched and searched and searched the instal procedures and as far as I can see, the (4) 5/8" bolts that mount the engine to the clutch housing are the only thing that supports the whole engine and now that it's in place, I see no other points where anything could mount to support it. Am I missing something or are those 4 bolts really all that is designed to support all that weight?

Also finished up the dash (it looks damn good too if I do say so myself) and got my keys today, tested the switch and all 3 positions tested good.

Tomorrow is brake linkages, shift linkages and the battery box... I'm definitely enjoying seeing it come together much more than seeing it come apart haha, she's looking gooooood!

[B Town]

4 bolts, yes, that is all that is holding the engine. It just dangles out in front of the trans.

[cordlesscarpenter]

4 bolts, yes, that is all that is holding the engine. It just dangles out in front of the trans.

Sure makes me feel better that you confirmed that, still feels weird but hey, it's lasted 50 years like that so who am I to judge lol. Thanks Bruce!

[cordlesscarpenter]

Been getting a lot of the engine put together and realizing I need a few more parts but it's coming together nicely.

I decided to have my new wiring harness built to accommodate a Delco style one wire alternator setup but am now unsure what my best options are in that decision. I do still want a one wire alternator and I do not want an el-cheap-o alternator but I'm not familiar enough with alternators to know which brand to go with that would work on this machine (in the one wire configuration). I went with one wire so that it would be easier to replace when necessary being that I won't be anywhere near a JD parts counter nor will I have the ability to order online as easily. Which alternator would you guys recommend? Also, I know I need the right pulley but oem alternator pulley is around $90 anywhere I look (OEM or aftermarket) which sounds ridiculous to me, does anyone know the pulley diameter I need to run so I can buy a pulley and keep my left leg? I feel like this is something I should already know but I have always had a horrible distain for electricity in general and has turned into an "avoid learning at all cost" kinda topic, right up there with filing taxes and arranging a funeral... ugh. Any help in this department is greatly appreciated (both alternator recommendations as well as pulley dimensions).

I did also get the brake pedal linkages connected while rolling through the brake/steering clutch adjustment procedure, got the transmission linkages connected and the fully (and smoothly I might add) radiator/hyd pump support and hydraulic pump drive/disconnect assembly installed.

My engine builder is a great mechanic but a painter he is not lol. He painted the engine as he put it together but it needs a lot of touch-ups and he ran out of paint for the water pump so I need to pull and paint that, then I can get back to building out in front of the engine with new radiator, new trans cooler, new hyd pump, etc.

Waiting for my trans temp sensor and neutral starter safety switches to get here and installed then I can get the side boxes mounted.

Also picked up 15 gallons of vinegar today (people at Walmart no doubt thought I was a wack job or something lol)... you keep your tush tissue, I'm stocking up on vinegar! Vinegar/water, 50/50 is what I chose to go with to clean the fuel tank (combined with pressure washing). I will also be cleaning and flushing the hydraulic sump tank and outlet lines and rebuilding all 4 cylinders. Waiting for hyd filter and cylinder seals to arrive.

SO, progress is steady with LOTS still left to do but still shooting for a May departure barring any big delays.