How to bleed air from a 350c/ or fuel problems

[Gwilkrrs]

So I ran the machine out of fuel, I quickly added fuel and restarted it but it now is loading up and won’t rev clean
Y so I am sure it has an air bubble and I don’t see a bleed screw? I am used to hard filters and bleed screws but this machine is not like that

[DavidG]

Here’s the bleed procedure when changing fuel filters from the manual. This may help.

[Gwilkrrs]

man thanks!!!
i guess i need to find a manual quicker then i thought!

i had found the bleed screw but just couldn't get it to purge while running- i saw the pump lever but just didnt get what it was---------

cant wait till this evening!

i did see that the front 2 hood clasps were broken though and i do have a small tree under the bucket arm holding the bucket up safety for access so i suppose all wasn't lost.

thanks again

[Gwilkrrs]

So I followed the bleed procedure-
I started the machine and it was able to rev but had hesitation then died-
Pumped again- started again and same deal
So I cracked the tank line to verify good flow out- yes good flow-
Then I took filter off and pumped to make sure fuel came out- yep
Put filter back on and started again
To have it start and almost immediately die-
Pumped again and I see bubbles at bottom of filter so I know it’s pumping- but doesn’t run
The filter looked ok/clean so I wonder if it pumps on its own with out the manual pumping like the pump is bad?

[Jim B]

How much fuel have you put in since it ran out? Bubbles in the filter is not a good sign. A low fuel level in the tank could be a problem. You could have a loose connection somewhere between the tank and pump. The fuel transfer pump may be failing and is drawing air in. Watch the engine oil level. If it is going up that can also be a sign of a failing transfer pump.
Jim

[Gwilkrrs]

I put 10 gallons in
I see the fuel so it has plenty
I never saw a wet area where a line could be leaking
I cracked lines to make sure flow wasn’t blocked at tank and at pump-
The hand pump lever is loose like it isn’t always with resistance- when I put it “back” it just kinda dangles but it did pump a squirt when toggled?
Oil level is a touch low so it isn’t growing oil-

Not sure if lever should always have resistance or if it should do more then squirt when pumped but machine seems to start when pumped but die like it is not being “fed” fuel


I assumed I could pump the bowl fuel easily but it didn’t/wasn’t

[Jim B]

The hand lever on the pump is related to the pump lever that runs on the camshaft. You would not get much, if any, resistance when you stroke the hand lever unless the cam is in the right position. If the cam lobe has the pump lever lifted, you won't feel much on the hand lever. It is not uncommon to need to bump the engine, with the starter, to change the position of the cam so the cam lever will allow the hand lever to move the pump through a pumping stroke. Sometimes it takes several tries to get it to the right spot.

Three different style transfer pumps were used. Which fuel transfer pump does yours have? All metal (non-rebuildable), removable metal top, or glass sediment bowl top? Just good to know which is on the engine now, the common replacement ones are all metal, non-rebuildable type.

When did you last change the fuel filter? Running out of fuel can often pump crud into the filter. Yours has the rectangular glass housing filter, correct? That would be John Deere part number AR50041 (WIX 33370, NAPA 3370).

There is a small strainer under the fuel inlet fitting of the injection pump. those usually don't get crud in them and bother, unless the fuel filter fails.

If you ran it completely out of fuel, there is a good chance you need to bleed the injection lines from the injection pump at the injection nozzle ends. Do you know how to do that? First a word of caution, keep body parts away from possible leaks in high pressure injection lines. Fuel can be injected under the skin and can be serious, even fatal (the same applies to hydraulic leaks). If you have never done this, you loosen the nuts on the high pressure lines a bit at each injection nozzle connection (not at the injection pump end). Two wrenches are needed, one for the nut on the line and one to hold the nozzle tube end from twisting. You don't have to remove them, just loosen. With them loose, crank the engine until fuel comes from the loose lines. If you see one dribbling fuel steadily, tighten it, and crank again. It may start before all the lines are tight. If it does shut it off and tighten the remaining lines.

You have said several times it has started and run but won't rev. That sounds a bit strange to me. Usually if they start, they will keep running and clear any air in the system themselves. If there is air in, or getting into, the system they won't clear and won't keep restarting. I would put another 10 (+) gallons of fuel in it, change the fuel filter, and fully bleed the system and see what happens.

[Gwilkrrs]

thanks-
pump is all metal
fuel filter is glass rectangle- havent replaced it yet but it "looks" clean/clear (i will replace now just to be sure)

i had it running and cracked the injector line on the top off the engine closest to the operator station and had fuel sqirt out and machine died before i could tighten back up------ it is possible i myself trying to bleed the system have created a bigger problem by adding more air by mistake........

thanks for the walk thru process

i will get a new filter, pump that up and crank but not start and try to burp the air from filter and each injector line from top of motor....

[Jim B]

You should be able to bleed the filter and push fuel to the injector pump (loosen the inlet line at the injection pump end after you have bled the filter and closed the bleed plug) with the hand lever, not cranking. The engine must be cranked to bleed the injection lines.

[Gwilkrrs]

So I put a new fuel and air filter on and it started right up and then shut down

The filter took a bit to hand pump to fill

It starts and shuts right down-

I was by myself so I did my best to crack injectors and crank it and close them but I need 2 people to do it right I guess

So frustrated -

I filled it with fuel also and cranked the weak batteries down -

[Jim B]

If you get fuel coming out of a line at an injector, steadily, stop cranking and tighten it. Crank again, then tighten the next having steady fuel. Also try a jumper wire from a power source (battery positive, battery cable stud of the solenoid, battery stud of the alternator) to the shutoff solenoid terminal of the injection pump. This bypasses the ignition switch and wiring between it and the injection pump. If it stays running with the jumper wire, there is an electrical problem in the wiring or a bad ignition switch.

[Gwilkrrs]

don’t think it’s air now.

After sitting for a day it started right up and reved but didn’t “clear” it ran for a minute and just died. Start right back up to immediately die- after sitting a bit starts and turns off after a bit

I took the line off going to lift pump and got fuel. Line going to injector pump and got fuel. Took the screen out of the top of the injector pump and it looked clean- I blew thru it ok and squirted it down with carb cleaner (couldn’t figure out how to get screen off nozzle) put it back together and it cranked for a bit then started and ran for a couple min (longer then before) then died -

I think it isn’t getting fuel. It sits and debri settles then runs and debri kicks up and blocks something and it turns off?

I don’t know

I didn’t crack the injectors yet because I thought air would be a hard start issue? Maybe next day I can get help I will crack all injectors and try to bleed them?

[Gwilkrrs]

Researching the pump now

I won’t see the machine or book till tomorrow but I think the fuel solenoid or the ignition switch may be suspect- thanks for those ideas

[Jim B]

The shut off solenoid is internal of the pump, under the top cover. If you decide to pull the cover off be very careful as things in there must go together correctly and cleanliness cannot be stressed enough.

As I posted before try a jumper wire to bypass the switch and wiring between the switch and the pump. Also look closely at the top cover of the pump. You should see the terminal the wire from the switch hooks to and close to it there should be another similar terminal. That one is the ground for the shutoff solenoid. There should be a small metal strap between that terminal and one of the cover's hold down screws. I have encountered one and heard of others breaking, leading to either a complete failure or intermittent failure. Not real likely, but It is worth a close inspection. Another way to check power to the shutoff is to clip the lead of a test light to the power terminal on the pump cover and ground the probe. Start it and see if the power drops out.

[jimmydiesel]

Gwilkrrs
I have a John Deere 410 backhoe it had the same symptom’s. I added fuel- nope. Changed the filter- nope. Replaced the transfer pump- nope
It would start and idle, if I speeded it up much it would die. Then it would start back up. After some more research I removed the check valve where the return line hooks up to the injection pump. It was plugged up with what looked like little mouse turds. I unplugged the check valve and reinstalled it. The tractor ran normal for about 5 minutes. Removed the check valve again and it was plugged again.
I ran the tractor with the check valve out and it continued to run normal, just spitting fuel out the hole.
The problem was the dampener ring inside the injector pump was disintegrating and plugging the check valve. That causes pressure to build inside the pump case. When the pressure equalizes with the transfer pump pressure fuel stops flowing to the pump and the engine dies. This would be worth checking on your machine.
Steve.