JD 450B - no vin tag

[labbe001]

Hi guys
Brand new member here. I’m in the process of purchasing, what I believe is a JD 450-B. The machine isn’t in the best of shape but I’m getting a steal of a deal so I feel good about it. The decals on the sides call it to be a 450-B. I understand they are just decals but they look to be original and aged consistent to the rest of the machine. However, there are some things I see that aren’t consistent with pics I’m seeing of other 450-B machines. Unfortunately, the vin plate has been plate has been removed at some point so I don’t have this information available. There is a number stamped into the machine just above the left rear “T20707T-L” ….I’ve tried researching this number but can’t find that it’s tied to any specific make/model/year. Without the vin plate, what are some tell tell signs I can look for that could tell me the year/make/model of this machine without the vin plate?
As I mentioned, I’m a brand new member and working through the posting pic process. Hopefully I can post some pics soon. Thanks in advance for the help.

[dtoots1]

Add your location to your profile,,that is in the drop down box where you log in to the crawler site....someone maybe nearby to help or view your machine..

[Jim B]

Welcome to the board.

Is the engine turbocharged? Is the ID tag on the engine? It should be in the area between the end of the starter and the engine oil filter. Is the nose more rectangular than rounded, at the top?
Jim

[labbe001]

I just realized in my original post I said JD 450-D…..I meant JD 450-B…..sorry for the confusion and I’ve made the corrections. Are there tell tell signs to look for on a JD 450-B?

[labbe001]

Add your location to your profile,,that is in the drop down box where you log in to the crawler site....someone maybe nearby to help or view your machine..

I have added my location….Alabaster, Alabama. The machine is currently located in Lincoln, Alabama.

[Jim B]

There should be two 1/8" rivet holes, about 3" apart, where the serial number tag would have been. You should find them in one of two places. The right side of the panel below the seat for a straight 450 or a 450B serial number 142199 and prior. Or for serial number 142200 and after, they will be in the front panel of the battery box, where you would see them while standing on the ground if mounting the machine from that side. It's not a real ID, but will point to an earlier 450B, or a later one.

According to the parts catalog, starting with 450B serial number 142200 the fuel tank had a drain valve and tube (coming from a sump pocket I believe. These were not on the 450 and early 450B tanks.

Are the shift levers both located at the front of the battery box/left arm rest?

If the tag is on the engine your dealer might be able to date that. Of course, there is nothing to say it hasn't been swapped at some point in the crawler's life.

[labbe001]

There should be two 1/8" rivet holes, about 3" apart, where the serial number tag would have been. You should find them in one of two places. The right side of the panel below the seat for a straight 450 or a 450B serial number 142199 and prior.

Are the shift levers both located at the front of the battery box/left arm rest?

This is great info. There is two hole where a tag used to be on the right just below the seat.

Also, as you sit in the seat, there is one lever directly to your left on the side of the battery box. There is also a lever below the seat….located bt your legs as you sit in the seat. Seems like I recall it being a HLR lever. In comparing the pics I have with those online, the instrument panel looks different as well. Most of the 450B panels have a larger gauge of some sort. The instrument panel on this machine has four small gauges.
I really need to figure out how to post pics…

Thanks everyone for all the great info and help

[B Town]

A Straight 450 had the 202 Diesel engine. The HLR was between the legs of the operator.

Here is a link to a 450 Straight HLR parts diagram.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/171226


The 450B had the same type of HLR setup ( between the operator’s legs) up to SN 142199. After that SN the HLR joined the gear shifter on the lid of the battery box (left box). It sounds like you are describing a 450B with SN 142199 or less or a straight 450. Maybe further breaks could be found looking at the parts books closer.

450Straight -

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/nav ... ment/64777


450B -

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/nav ... ment/59420

Any chance of looking under the paint bxt the two rivets you found. Sometimes the SN was also stamped under the SN plate. I was not uncommon to cover that stamp with paint.

[Jim B]

x2 on the info from B Town.

Is the serial number tag still on the engine? If so, what is the complete number on it? That might let us confirm which engine it has.

As for the dash. The panel was available with the large (fifth) hole if the tachometer option was used. If the tachometer was not used the dash panel did not have the large hole. I believe the straight 450s that had a tach, had it mounted on the floor, not in the dash.

You will find info about this site's dedicated picture server on the Messageboard Q&A and Announcements Board. It is at the bottom of the index when you are signed in. You can post using another third-party hosting site, if you use one of those, like Imgur, Postimages, etc.
Jim

[labbe001]

Thanks for the help guys
The vin tag was at one time located on the lower right (sitting in the seat) but is definitely missing. I forgot to look to see if a vin exists on the engine but from all accounts and research, It looks like the machine is a pre 142199 dozer.

I've been kicking around the idea of adding a ripper on the back and have located one reasonably priced. How difficult would it be to add a ripper on a machine that currently doesn't have one? I've been looking online and searching the message board but haven't had much luck finding info on this. Obviously it would have to tie into the hydraulics but didn't know if non-ripper machines had provisions to do that from the factory or not. Also, I would imagine i would need to add a control of some sort.....

[Jim B]

If the ripper came off a 450B, and all the mounting parts are there, it should mechanically bolt on. If it came off a different machine, you might have to fabricate mounting parts. You would need all the hydraulic parts for it. Unless your 450B had one on it, or some other hydraulic attachment and left the valve behind, you will likely need to tie a valve in as well. Your service manual should have a schematic of the piping for a ripper in the hydraulics section.

[JWB Contracting]

The biggest factor is the dozer mounting frame having the brackets to accept the backhoe mounting hooks, which are required to mount the factory deere ripper. Not sure I would chance running a ripper without this mounting in place. We have built them or cut them off a wrecked loader attachment.

On a dozer you normally need to add a separate single smooth valve. The factory mount is the same as used on a loader valve as is plumped in line from the dozer valve return, to the single valve and then returned to the tank. I believe the valve requires its own relief. I have a factory one hidden away along with a ripper attachment, hoe hooks and shanks for future use on a ripper install of my own, straight 350 gas with outside mount dozer.

[labbe001]

The ripper is off of a 450B and comes with the mounting bracket as well so hopefully it will mount straight up with little to no modifications

I'm a little confused on the hydraulics part of it. My machine has a 6 way blade so, to my knowledge, there are no extra ports for auxiliary attachments. I've been looking in my service manual at the hydraulics diagram for my machine and comparing it to the ones with a ripper set-up. I can't seem to find a hydraulic diagram for a machine with a 6 way blade and ripper in one.

On a dozer you normally need to add a separate single smooth valve.

Is it just a matter of getting an aux control valve an plumbing it into the return line? Would I have to have one off of an old machine (as well as the linkage and lever) or could I get something aftermarket.....maybe something from Northern Tool like in the link below?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools ... 6398_36398

Sorry for all the noob questions....Thank you guys for all your help.

[B Town]

There are many different ways to route hyd to your ripper. If you look inside the right box, with the hyd 6 way blade, you can see your hyd valve control stack. Sometimes there is an extra unused stack that you could plumb into. You may have to add a lever if you don’t already have one coming up out of the lid of the box.

Another way would be to use a diverter valve in a current circuit used by the blade. This would require extra plumbing but would use your current valve , this may be helpful if your current stack doesn’t have an extra unused circuit.

Best regards, Bruce

[original possum]

Not totally familiar with your unit but pretty sure you have open center hydraulics. There should be a "slot" in the control box outboard of the six-way stick where JD put the stick for the ripper. You should not need a diverter valve but any open center spool you put on it should have ports at least as big as the exit of your blade control setup, probably 1". Plumb it in series.