450 B or C

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A&B's 450
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450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:05 pm

I just bought a 450. No serial numbers, trying to figure out if b or c. Weak steering on right side.
Has hydraulic fluid in right side under square plug above the socket. On left side does not appear to have any fluid or evidence of fluid. Thinking maybe it's a b and someone put fluid in right side? Is there a pic, visual difference between c and b?

Jim B
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Re: 450 B or C

Post by Jim B » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:15 pm

Welcome to the Board.

With no serial number it could be a 450, 450B, or C, which were all similar in sheet metal.

Start with finding where the serial number tag was located. Se where you find two 1/8" holes about 3 inches apart.
Image
Image

Does it have power assist steering (two small cylinders, under the seat, with linkage to the steering levers)? If it does is there a small pump located around the front of the engine (separate from the hydraulic pump driven off the crankshaft)? Does the pump have a reservoir or is it piped in (no reservoir mounted on the pump)? Where is the Hi-Lo-reverse lever located (on the floor between your legs or in the left arm rest alongside the gear range shift lever? These things can help narrow it to a 450 or early 450B, as compared to a late 450B or a 450C. Establish this then there will be other questions.

This site has a dedicated picture server you have to set up an account with Lavoy to use, you can read about it on the Messageboard Q&A and Announcements Board (visible at the bottom of the index page when you are logged in). You can also use a third-party imagining site like Imgur, Postimage, etc. Pictures don't post direct to the site from your computer or phone, as far as I know.

A&B's 450
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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:11 pm

Thank you for getting back to me. I don't see any rivet holes. Even looked on inside to see where something may have been covered. Under seat , the steering linkage goes to 2 threaded rods that go into a block that has 2 lines coming out of the top of it then back down and into steering housing (guessing) . The other linkage connected to steering goes to rods that are on the front of that same housing. I don't see any lines from the top that run to front of tractor. On front , just under radiator I see pump that runs out toward loader. No reservoir just hydraulic filter. Thank you again

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:15 pm

Shifters are on left sitting in seat. HLR, 1234, right side has bucket and ripper controls

B Town
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Re: 450 B or C

Post by B Town » Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:44 pm

While standing at the side of the machine and facing the sprocket/final drive, look about two inches above the top of the final case and about 10 inches in front of the case toward the front of the machine. If you see a triangle shaped cover held in place by three bolts, you have a “B” series. If no triangle cover, you have a “C”.


https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/200636


Number 24/25

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by Jim B » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:00 pm

I have linked a page from the 450C parts catalog which shows the top rear cover on the transmission case. It has two spool valves operated by the steering levers and shows some of the hydraulic lines attached to it. Does this look like what is under your crawler's seat? If so, it should be a wet steering clutch machine making it a very late model 450B or a 450C. The serial number tag should have been on the front panel of the battery compartment.
https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/200714

A&B's 450
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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:07 pm

Yes, that is what I have. Thank you so much. So I should have hydraulic fluid under the plug above the sprocket. Still have weak steering on right side. But at least I know what I have.

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:10 pm

No triangle cover with 3 bolts, so I have a C. Adjusting steering linkage on right side now, then top off fluid in final drive thru plug above sprocket?

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by Jim B » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:21 pm

It is likely a common sump by now, and the level is checked using the transmission dipstick as the transmission, differential, steering clutches and finals are the same fluid sump. The sump uses John Deere Hy-Gard or a UTHF meeting JDM J20C specs. Do you have a 450C manual so you know you are making the right adjustments?

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:45 pm

Just figured out I have a C, bought a B, then got to wondering... so C is on order only thing I adjusted was the travel linkage from the handles, nothing internal. Could see right was doing nothing until pulled way back. C should have hydraulic fluid , as you described, in plug above sprocket?

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:47 pm

Dipstick shows full on hydraulic, but right side had fluid left side didn't which got me wondering if I have a B and someone put fluid in dry clutch. Very new at this, less than a week. Mine may still be separate.

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by Jim B » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:22 pm

To avoid confusion. Transmission (including steering) and Hydraulic are two separate things and systems. They use the same type fluid but do not share it.

Hydraulic fluid (Hy-Gard or equal) is the tank under the right arm rest. The hydraulic filter is there as well. You check it using the sight glass in the side of the tank.

Transmission fluid (Hy-Gard or equal) has the dipstick in the transmission case to check level. The spin on filter in front of the radiator is for the transmission. There is also a cleanse suction screen in the lower right side of the transmission.

There are a number of posts here you can find regarding the common sump and modification to make the sumps common. If it is not a common sump you would fill the steering clutch housing through that plug.

Is it steering ok, or if not, just what are the symptoms?

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:07 pm

I read one post that said use the plug above the sprocket to put hydraulic fluid in for steering clutches. My right side had hydraulic fluid in I could touch. Left side did not. Right side steering I have to pull harder, still steers, just more pull. The plugs lower, about mid way on sprocket , on the back, have black oil, guessing 80 w 90 or something. Kinda smells when I check. So on the C, I should put hydraulic fluid in the slanted square plug hole above the sprockets? I adjusted linkage on steering today, didn't notice a lot of difference, but it's raining, so didn't do much. Just trying to be sure I don't put fluid in that hole that doesn't need it. I have read post that say under that plug is just for adjustment...

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Re: 450 B or C

Post by B Town » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:37 pm

Okay. For clarification. The plugs on the back of the machine(1/2 way down the final drives) are gear oil for the finals. This oil never touches the steering or transmission. The drain for these finals are under the machine. One plug for left one plug for right. These are in the final drive sump (cast steel crescent moon heavy sumps) under the rear of the machine.

The angle plugs above the sprocket in the mid-line with the axle pinion is for steering clutch oil(hygard). They should be filled to the bottom of the hole. Unless…….you have a common sump (where steering fluid L and R circulate with the transmission). In that particular case the slanted plugs are lock-tited and are not opened or checked. Because the level of fluid in common sump tractors is above these plugs and the fluid level is checked exclusively through the dipstick under the seat(as Jim B mentioned).

The larger 1 1/4” plugs toward the front of the steering case but still on the side of the machine, that is flat to the steering case has adjustments for the steering brake. These are automatic adjust. Probably should not adjust unless you can confirm you have a problem there.

You must get the correct manuals. Parts, technical and I would suggest owners.


If you have one steering housing with fluid and the other without fluid, you likely don’t have a common sump system (or you have a common sump messed up like I have never seen). You must confirm and be confident you have a “C” series and not a “B” series.

Her is a link to the C series steering case parts page.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/200567


No triangle cover. These parts books are on line, free to use.

Best regards,
Bruce

A&B's 450
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Re: 450 B or C

Post by A&B's 450 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:13 pm

Thank you so much for the information. I have a c operator's manual coming. Order a B tech manual when thought had a b, but thanks to forum, now I know what I have.

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