JD 450C no crank

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Jim B
350 crawler
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Location: western Maine

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by Jim B » Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:14 pm

This is assuming you have checked the battery voltage and condition. The solenoid may be bad internally. Make sure your machine is in neutral and try using a jumper wire between the battery terminal of the solenoid and the start wire terminal. If that makes it crank it can be an indication of too little current getting through the ignition switch and wire to the solenoid. A possible fix for that is to add a remote solenoid or a relay activated by the switch but getting power for the solenoid start terminal from the battery post on the solenoid. That has been don on many applications. If it does not crank with the jumper wire use a booster cable or some other heavy conductor to jump between the large posts of the solenoid. The starter likely won't engage but it should spin right up. If it spins up it is likely a solenoid problem. If it doesn't spin the starter is either locked in the ring gear or more likely has an internal problem.

andyvt
420 crawler
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:31 pm

I was jumping it between the battery terminal of the solenoid and the start wire terminal and the solenoid would just click and no starter crank at all.
i will drag some heavy jumper cables out to the dozer and try jumping the solenoid posts.

andyvt
420 crawler
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:30 am

Tried jumping the two large solenoid terminals and turning the key but got nothing from the starter so I am guessing that the starter will have to come out :shock:
Would dropping the belly pan give any more access to the starter bolts?

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by Jim B » Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:07 pm

I don't think the effort of getting the belly pan off and back on will be a gain in the end, they are no fun to wrestle with.

andyvt
420 crawler
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:03 pm

I was not looking forward to dropping it. Thanks for the heads up.

B Town
350 crawler
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Location: Western Iowa

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by B Town » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:37 am

For safety reasons this is an excellent time to clean the belly pans. When was the last time they were cleaned?. Anyone ever seen a dozer/loader belly pan fire?

andyvt
420 crawler
420 crawler
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:11 pm

Did some more troubleshooting and decided I need to pull the starter. :twisted:
I have 2 spare starters so will be going in as soon as weather permits.
Finally getting some rain here after all the very hot dry days we have had all sunmmer.

andyvt
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:38 am

Woohoo starter is out, was not as hard as I imagined.
Raising the blade and removing the fuel filter give more room to see and swing a wrench.
Not enough room to get a socket on the lower bolt and only small amount of room to use socket [at an angle ] on the top nut.
Bench tested both spare starters and one works so that is going in :)

andyvt
420 crawler
420 crawler
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:47 pm

Starter is back in but I celebrated too soon.
There was no response from the solenoid or the starter when powered up.
I did not have my DMM with me so I could not check for voltage but will return when this rain shower passes.
Unfortunately, my electrical knowledge leave much to be desired.

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by Jim B » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:53 pm

Try bypassing the master switch. I have seen them go bad. Hook all the wires to one terminal on the master switch and try it.

andyvt
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:59 pm

First thing I did was bypass the master, no change at all

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by Jim B » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:14 pm

Good the master switch has been eliminated as the problem. When you get your meter on it watch the battery voltage at the solenoid when trying to crank the starter

andyvt
420 crawler
420 crawler
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:17 am

Got the meter out and check voltages and weirdly, the start circuit reads 12.5 volts without having to push the start button!
What would that indicate? Like I said earlier, I am electrically ignorant.

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by Jim B » Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:28 pm

Are you saying the small wire on the solenoid, coming from the ignition switch/ safety switch, has 12.5 volts on it all the time? That would indicate a bad ignition/start switch, but the starter should be turning if that is the case.

andyvt
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:34 pm

Re: JD 450C no crank

Post by andyvt » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:26 pm

Maybe I have hooked something up wrong. I will check it in the morning, something is not right.

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