JD 450C no crank

[andyvt]

I parked my new to me crawler last week after a few hours of operation. It started easily during that time.
I went to start it this morning but when I turned the key and hit the starter button and got nothing.
\The H2O gauge needle did move to the left of the gauge when I turned the key on but that was all that was indicated .
Batteries are at 12.65 v and are new.
I had turned he master power switch on first before trying to start it.
The machine cockpit was covered with a tarp for the 10 days it sat.
Any help in troubleshooting/diagnostics would be appreciated.

[andyvt]

Well, I went back out and pulled the right side engine cover off to expose the starter.
All wiring looked intact, so for kicks I rapped the starter solenoid and starter body with the wrench and it cranked slowly a while but no start. So, I turned it off and tried a few more crank and shut downs till it finally spun faster and fired up!
Shut it down and tried again and it fired up. Put the side covers back on and fired it up a third time.
The previous owner had mentioned that the starter sometimes would crank slowly, which it did the first few non-starting crank overs before finally spinning faster and firing.
I would assume that there is an issue with the starter that leads to this situation. The PO has another starter that I can have if this one s*its the bed.

[B Town]

Sounds like a faulty starter. I updated to a reduction drive and love it. Starts much quicker, more torque. The starter sounds like a Toyota now.

[Jim B]

Sounds like time to change the starter. Murphy's Law will come in to play, and it will be completely dead, in a worse location, at a worse time, if you don't.

[andyvt]

B town, Where did you get that gear reduction starter and what did it cost?

[B Town]

Off eBay. Similar to this if not this exact one.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/134061607220?h ... BM_pbs1Mdg

[andyvt]

B town, Thanks for that

[DrLoch]

Out one of those on mine, works well.

[andyvt]

It happened again and like you guys said, it will be in a worse place.
My questions are: #1 - can I jump the starter by grounding it? If so, what terminals need to be jumped? That way I can get the dozer down to my shop.
#2 - Any tips on getting the starter out? Access looks very tight. Are special tools needed?

[B Town]

It sounds like your problem is in the starter. So jumping the silonoid posts may not help as your problem is “more downstream “. So you would not ground the starter you would jump the battery cable (large post on the starter) to the small post ( wire coming from the ignition switch and start push button.

The starter removal is a real treat. The main problem is the fastener on the bottom side of the starter. You can loosen the fastener on the top of the starter, but don’t remove or loosen too much. This would just bind the bottom fastener worse. If you are lucky the bottom is a stud with washer and nut. It is worse if the fastener is a bolt. Have a very wide selection of short and long extension, short sockets, small child like hands etc. oh and plenty of patience and time.

[andyvt]

B Town, Thanks for those details, I will see if I can get it started and then to the shop where I can work on it more easily.

[andyvt]

Took my trusty push button remote jumper [which I have never used] and a screwdriver back up to the dozer.
Using the screwdriver I tested the terminals to see if it would crank and it did!
Hooked up the push button jumper and it fired right up.
B Town: I still have a question concerning your thought that it is a starter issue and not the solenoid. The main battery lead is hooked to the solenoid and with a smaller wire connecting the solenoid to the starter. Would this change your thought or is it no different.?

[Jim B]

It is not uncommon for the battery cable to be on one of the large solenoid terminals and a smaller gauge wire, or a copper strap is used between the other large terminal of the solenoid and the starter motor internals. If that is what you are referring to it is fine, unless the wire/strap is loose, corroded, or otherwise compromised.

[andyvt]

i figured that was the case.

[andyvt]

Well, the starter stopped again after weeks of perfect operation.
When I try and jump it from the terminals, the solenoid clicks but the starter is silent.
It had started 15 minutes earlier but after shutting down and trying to restart, it would not crank.
Could the starter have suddenly died or is there some diagnostics that I can try?