Maybe a silly question ?

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pearljam724
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Maybe a silly question ?

Post by pearljam724 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:22 am

I have a 65-70 model JD 450 loader i just bought a few weeks ago. This is my first large piece of equipment. So take it easy on me with this one, lol ! Are you supposed to grease the bottom rollers ? I ask because there are no grease fittings that I can see.

Jim B
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by Jim B » Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:44 am

If the original rollers have been replaced there is a very good chance that your machine has the newer type of oil filled rollers, you don't grease those. The Operator's manual OMT23810 gives you info on greasing the original rollers, which had grease fittings and were to be done every 500 operating hours. clean up an end cap and shaft or two and post a picture if there are two plugs visible, they should be oil filled.

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LeonardL
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by LeonardL » Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:07 am

First of all your question is not silly. Ask what you need to know. I would rather you ask us rather than be sorry you didn't. Most likely your rollers are oil filled and don't need to be greased. A grease lubricated roller will have an obvious grease fitting on the outside end cap of the roller. Usually a button head style grease fitting. Oil filled will have a tiny pipe plug in basically the same position. Most of these older machines have had their rollers changed once or twice in their lifetime and I would say yours have been changed at least once at some point. Probably more than that.

Most of the replacement rollers are all oil filled instead of running in grease. There are a few exceptions to that rule but for the most part they will be oil filled. You do need to check them occasionally for wear and tear. Make sure they turn freely but aren't loose on the shaft. Usually when one goes bad you will see oil coming out from around the caps or running down on the tracks. A good roller will feel smooth with maybe just a touch of resistance when you turn them by hand. If they are bad then they will be loose and feel like they're grinding on the shaft.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

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LeonardL
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by LeonardL » Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:08 am

Sorry Jim!! We were answering at the same time!! LOL!! :D
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

Jim B
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by Jim B » Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:53 am

Nothing to be sorry for, it's confirmation.

pearljam724
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by pearljam724 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:15 pm

Thanks, guys. I think that’s the case being the upper roller clearly has a fitting and I thought it was odd the lowers didn’t. Mine are fine. But, what is today’s rough price on each one of these ? My understanding the track pads are roughly 40-50 each ? I’m just trying to familiarize myself with everything I can. I have a good manual. But, of course a manual doesn’t always tell you other things that experienced guys can. So, I appreciate how helpful everyone has been on this site.

Jim B
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by Jim B » Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:40 pm

What manual(s) do you have? Are the ones you have the correct ones for your machine? it does make a difference at times as there may be different info for the different series (straight, B, C, D) of the 450 model. I have seen several times when a person was having trouble figuring out how to apply what was in a manual to their machine, only to find out their manual was for the wrong series or serial number of a model. The Operator's manual is the one with the lubrication info and the service manual has the diagnostic and how to repair info. Questions like the one here on the rolls, arise as the roll designs changed and one finds what they have doesn't match the description in the Operator's manual for lubrication (don't worry, you aren't the first to ask and likely won't be the last). The lubrication of those that are oil filled is not in your manual(s).

Another thing to be aware of is the manuals will specify "John Deere 303 Special Purpose Oil" for the transmission and hydraulics. That oil is obsolete, regardless of what you may see a bucket labelled. 303 used sperm whale oil as an ingredient, which became unavailable due to the endangered species act in 1974. At that time JD introduce the JDM J14A specification. That spec has been superseded a couple times. The current fluid to replace 303 is Hy Gard or a fluid meeting the (JDM) J20C specification. The aftermarket fluid will often be labeled as their premium UTHF and on the label or their product data sheet it should say it meets the requirements of J20C. Sorry if this is a repeat of info on the UTHF, but I'd hate to hear you damaged your transmission with the wrong fluid/oil.

I will admit to pushing people on looking at the right manuals. I had to do it throughout my career. When I get a machine, I buy the manuals for it (except parts catalog/book if that is available online and I can print pages). I have found it sticks better and is easier to find the info again in the future if I read it in the manual, even if I need to ask a question or two for clarification. And there is nothing wrong with making notes in your manual or on a piece of paper and stick that in the manual for future reference. If you can tell what manual, you are looking at, when you have a problem, sometimes someone else may have the same manual and help with clarifying.

pearljam724
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by pearljam724 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:56 pm

It is a service manual that says John Deere Dubuque Works (Feb - 74). But has a main copyright of 1987. Under that 1987 copyright it has more copyright dates starting at 1964 through 1975 It’s inside a 3 ring vinyl binder. The cover says JD Dart operators manual. Through out the manual for different sections it has different yearly dates at the bottom of the page. Depending on what the topic is. Ranging from 64 to 75. It’s all there. Nothing is missing.

Jim B
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:51 am

Sounds about right. Somewhere it should have SM2064 on it, that is the actual identification/part number for the straight 450 service manual. JD changed the service manual name from Service to Technical for all machines starting in the B series time frame. The 450B Technical manual is TM1033 and has dates overlapping with the 450, including the May 1987 date. So, the SM or TM number is the identification key, not dates. Dates change on the different sections/pages would indicate when they updated and/or added information to that section. The 1987 date is likely the date your entire manual was reprinted. May 1987 is the date of the latest edition of SM2064 on the JD site.

Look to see if there is an actual operator's manual included in your binder as well. That part number should start with OMT. The current manual on the JD site is OMT23810 for the 450 crawler loader. There were earlier publications with different OMT numbers.

Given the way prices change lately, I am thinking you might find new rollers anywhere from $250 to $500 plus. Quantity bought at a time can affect the price, Then, there is shipping.

pearljam724
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by pearljam724 » Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:44 am

Yes it is SM-2064. There are additional sections for gas operated machines and winches. But, no operators manual.

Jim B
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:57 pm

This may help you identify how your rolls and idlers are lubricated. Here are some pictures of oil lubed ones to compare to yours. They fill in the center and check through a hole slightly above and to the side of center. These have grease fittings in holes that had plugs originally. The fellow I bought it from had checked/filled the rolls and used grease fittings to replace the bad plugs. So far, knock on wood, none have leaked. I'm going to have to replace most if not all the undercarriage one of these days, but it will run until it throws tracks, for now. If any of these look like yours, post back and I'll see if I can get you the info to check and fill them.
Image

Image

Image

pearljam724
430 crawler
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by pearljam724 » Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:55 pm

The third picture is exactly like my top rollers. But, no pictures you posted look like my bottom rollers. My bottoms rollers look like they have a allen head in the center.

Jim B
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Re: Maybe a silly question ?

Post by Jim B » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:58 am

Top roll like the picture and track rollers having a single Allen plug in the shaft, they are most likely aftermarket oil filled, "lifetime" rollers. Look at the cap on the end on the inside of the track. You might find a check plug in that cap, maybe not. You can check visually them for play and leaks, if you jack the crawler enough to free them from the chains. If they have minimal play and no visible leaks just run them, watch for signs of leaks and check them for play occasionally.

I wouldn't, but if you feel you need to confirm that they have oil in them, you could try removing a plug (that might be a challenge), but only loosen enough to see if it has oil behind it. Don't just spin it out, as the oil level is likely above the bottom of the plug hole, and you don't want to lose any oil. If you back it completely out be ready to turn it right back in when you see oil. Just my thoughts.
Jim

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