450B steering clutch opinions

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RidgeRunner
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Location: Vilonia, AR

450B steering clutch opinions

Post by RidgeRunner » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:04 pm

Hello everyone!
Quick background - I bought a 1973 JD450B Crawler Loader with the previous owner stating he had a shop replace the steering clutches a couple years ago, but 2 summers ago the left track suddenly stopped pulling. I did all the adjustments since they were way off, but that didn't fix the left track not pulling.
I'm looking for some opinions and really looking to see if any of y'all have experience with bimetallic steering clutches in a dry clutch system. I got it all apart, and the cheap replacement original style clutches were in a million pieces even though there was hardly any wear. All the teeth were broke off the inside of the clutches to where the drive half of the assembly wasn't able to engage with the driven half, hence no power to the track.
John Deere themselves have stopped selling the original style material and replaced with the bimetallic clutches, at the price of $134 a clutch. I only find as an aftermarket option what seems to be an overseas part (since it doesn't specify made in USA and everybody is selling the same thing). I have found all 9 clutches for $132, coming either as bimetallic or original. But I'm scared the original style will come apart like it currently has.
What do y'all think of maybe soaking the bimetallic plates in an oil to prevent them from being a harsh engagement? Or is it really not that bad? I'm just cleaning up my property and family property, and occasionally side jobs for a friend here and there, not looking to make a living with the dozer.
1947 Model A
1973 450B Loader

B Town
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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by B Town » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:49 pm

Unfortunately I have heard of several people going with the poor quality fiber discs and had early and total failure. Consider contacting Lavoy, owner of this site. He may have these discs available. He only sells/deals in high quality items.

I don’t have knowledge of the bi-metallic discs you have questions about.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12896

Best regards, Bruce

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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by Jim B » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:56 am

Oil, or any liquid/lubricant, on dry clutches is a NO-NO combination.

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Lavoy
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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:28 am

Cheap discs is the operative word here, not import. Some of the highest quality discs I have ever sold are import, and the most garbage discs were made in USA, TOTAL UTTER GARBAGE. The issue is not the disc, it is the person selling them. 99% of the people selling discs have never installed a clutch disc in their life. I install what I sell, I have sold somewhere around 10,000 clutch discs in my life, and I will say I have never had the guts torn out of a disc I sell like that unless it was from improper installation, or underlying other problem that has caused it, usually a pilot bearing issue.
I have had customers that have bought the discs on Ebay call me later and they have had exactly that happen. I did have one set of discs 15 years go or more that actually broke in the box on the way to the customer. Needless to say, never ordered or sold those discs ever again. Those discs still exist, see them all the time online.
The issue I have with all of the metallic discs on the market now is that they are selling the wet clutch disc as a dry clutch replacement. In the past, a dry clutch metallic replacement was just that, not a wet clutch being stuck in a dry clutch crawler and they are or were different and not interchangeable, I still have some on hand.
Someone with more knowledge than me can likely speak to the suitability of subbing the wet clutch disc in for the dry, but untill I know it is OK, I am still leery.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

RidgeRunner
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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by RidgeRunner » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:33 am

Good point Lavoy, cheap and low cost are not synonyms. Made in USA doesn't mean quality, and made in China doesn't mean low quality. I was a little loose with the terms.

I was mainly curious if anyone had luck with the metallic clutches since it seems John Deere has discontinued the dry clutch and replaced with the metallic clutch. Hard to tell without pictures though.

From the 450B PC1170-45 catalog
5 - LINING
Part NumberT44129
Qty Req9
Remarks(SUB FOR T20716) (HEAVY-DUTY ALTERNATE FOR T20716)

From the 450C PC1443-45 catalog
6 - LINING
Part NumberT82355
Qty Req8
Remarks(SUB FOR T41472)

Either way though, it's definitely not cheap at $134 a piece. I thought it would be a neat trick though to coat a metallic clutch with enough oil to prevent harsh engagement, but not so much that it spins out on the brake band. Kind of mimicking the wet clutch setup.

I'm pretty ignorant on dozers since this is my first one. I've just taken this dry clutch dozer apart, started crossing part numbers, and got to thinking on metallic clutches. I kind of envisioned installing metallic clutches and breaking a hard part within a couple years.
1947 Model A
1973 450B Loader

RidgeRunner
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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by RidgeRunner » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:35 am

And yes Bruce, I've been in contact with Lavoy. I'm waiting till he's gets back to his shop on Monday to order the original style clutches. Just looking to see if there was feedback on the metallic clutches mostly out of curiosity.
1947 Model A
1973 450B Loader

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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:20 pm

I'm not sure whether any are made in China, I have never seen a disc that says it is, but it is possible. Plus none of the metallic discs have seen say anything on them.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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Re: 450B steering clutch opinions

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:15 am

I have an inquiry in to a supplier of mine that I have bought from for years, he has 44 years of experience in the steering clutch business. I'm asking if he knows the suitability of the wet clutch disc as a replacement for the heavy-duty disc in dry clutch applications, and if he can still get me the original style heavy-duty disc for dry clutch crawlers.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

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