450 diff/ final drive

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
TuolumneGuy
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:34 am

450 diff/ final drive

Post by TuolumneGuy » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:21 pm

Hey this is the first ever forum of any kind ive ever bothered to get in on and im super limited on anything tech whatsoever so excuse my lack of knowledge about how this all works ... Anyway i got a 68 ish 450.dry clutches.it fires right up no problem dies as soon as i release the clutch. On a slight hillside i got the right side up on wood blocks and set the back hoe down on that side before i tore into the clutches. I assumed the brakes and clutches were froze and they were and ive since removed the the sprockets ( tracks on still like ive done before ) and got the covers off the clutches and brakes un stuck.the finals seem to move back and forth but not the pinion and i cant spin the hub upright to undo the set bolt for the clutch assemblies.im assuming now its an issue with either the transmission or pinion or ring gear in the rear diff.??? Anyone ever encounter similar problems ? Im super resourceful and can fab just about anything im just not real familiar with this 450 and not alot of info out there . Guys intown basically tell me to f off cause its not a case .thanks for the time

B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by B Town » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:53 pm

Are you able to change gears in the transmission? You are correct that you have a problem up stream from the frozen steering clutch. Either in the rear diff or the trans. I believe you will need to tear down quite a bit to get to the route of the problem.

Best regards, Bruce

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:54 am

I'm not clear on whether the sprockets are off from both sides, so both sides are free. These crawlers do not have a differential with spider gears, they are "posi-track" so to speak, the steering clutches disengaging are what allows turning. if one side is on the ground, or the brake on that side is frozen on, you can't turn the other unless a clutch is disengaged.

TuolumneGuy
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:34 am

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by TuolumneGuy » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:49 am

Yes it goes into gears and the clutch seems to work fine .both sprockets are off so its gotta be something inbetween the trans and the pinion in the finals .it supposedly had a worn out clutch on one side and then it sat for years so the brake and clutches froze up and when they fired ut up i think they kept dropping the clutch and something else gave up the ghost.what really sucks is i cant rotate the tracks to split them and cant rotate the hubs .i even tried bumping it over in gear .locked up. Getting the covers off the clutch housing is a huge pain with the back hoe and cage on but now im gonna pull that rear diff cover off and at least be able to remove the broken piece and free it up to drag it up to the road and home ! Is it possible to replace the parts with C model wet clutches ??

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:00 am

You asked: "Is it possible to replace the parts with C model wet clutches ??"

I would say not as a practical project. It is not just a few clutch parts it would include housings, gears, controls, and more. Buying a 450c would be more realistic than converting a 450 to the 450C steering system in my opinion.

If you haven't found this out yet, you can use the JD online parts catalogs, for free, to compare the components two if you want. The drawings may help also you with your current machine as well.

John Deere Online Parts Catalogs

TuolumneGuy
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:34 am

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by TuolumneGuy » Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:51 pm

I didnt see anything cor clutches on that site .i have a manual the 450c i had looked the same from the outside but im guess its got different brakes splines or pinion shaft? I just didnt know if i could rebuild the clutches with the c plates and fill it with fluid .i also cant figure out how to post pics .either way i still cant pull the pinion on the finals untill i get to that set bolt loose on the clutch basket correct?

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:44 pm

That is the home page to search for all JD parts catalogs. If you entered 450 in the model box and searched, you should have seen a selection titled 450 - Bulldozer. PC922. The catalog for the loader is separate several lines below that, 450 - Loader, Crawler PC927 (that is just the loader). Click on PC922 and you will have the online catalog for your crawler, the housing clutches, etc. will be there. You can do the same for the 450C. They update the numbers online so if an old part number substitutes to a newer part number you will see it.

You need to use a 3rd party hosting site to post pictures here. Postimage and Imgr are a couple that will work. The site does have a dedicated picture server you can use after setting up an account with Lavoy. Ther is information about it on the MessageBoard Q&A.

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:45 pm

Guessing you might be in Tuolumne, California from your handle. If that is so it looks like your temperatures are near and below freezing these days and nights. Could it have a fair volume of water in the transmission/differential and be frozen into ice, locking things up?

TuolumneGuy
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:34 am

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by TuolumneGuy » Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:13 pm

No i started this last summer .like i said as soon as i let the clutch out itd stall so after i tore into it ( major deal when the backhoe is on and cant split tracks )sure enough the clutches and brakes were seized up .gotem loose and removed sprockets but the hubs wont move .i can wiggle the hub and see it move back and forth on the final drive and the clutch wiggle the same but only as much as i have slop in the teeth so its froze from the clutch shaft and in .damn set screw is down on the bottom .but yah im in tuolumne city and its friggin too cold to wrench on it now haha doing my homework before spring

User avatar
Al Swearengen
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:01 am
Location: Sierra Nevadas...Gold Country!

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Al Swearengen » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:31 am

TuolumneGuy wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:13 pm
but yah im in tuolumne city and its friggin too cold to wrench on it now haha doing my homework before spring
Next to Yosemite here, one county over. Yeah, one heck of a winter so far!
'99 450G 6-Way

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:08 am

Thinking about this some more. If the problem is in the differential area, it would seem you should be able to put the speed range (gear part of the transmission), or the H-L-R, in neutral and not have it kill the engine. Maybe it does and I missed where you said this. When you say it would stall the engine was that with the H-L-R in neutral? If it stayed running with that in neutral, would it stay running if you put the speed range selector in neutral and tried it with the HLR in gear? Just some thoughts on trying to narrow the problem area down. I am wondering if in all the trying to get it to move a gear selection fork got bent somehow and it has two gears engaged in the speed range part of the transmission. Just a thought.

TuolumneGuy
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:34 am

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by TuolumneGuy » Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:12 am

Hlr in neutral it will idle.not sure what you mean by neutral in the speed change ? .I can shift 1-4 and hlrn i tried all combos i tried using the loader to push myself back and tried using the backhoe to pull it back and push it forward thinking it was froze brakes and steering clutches .bottom line if i engage h l or reverse it will stall when i release the clutch anythings possible inthere all i know is its something inbetween the engine clutch and the steering clutches ..im just hoping its not casing inbetween shafts in there but whatever it is its locked up good . No noise or grinding .i mean it wont even try to move .i wasnt there when it broke.all i know is it got stuck somehow and thats where its at .everything ive been told is just hear say from the neighbors but it sat for 10 years im guessing then they tried to get it up and going and my theory is thats when something really broke .

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:56 pm

My error on the neutral position in the range transmission, doesn't look like the 450s had it as a position in the shift quadrant. I don't know when they added it, my 450E has a "N" between 3rd and 4th. I don't know if you can find the sweet spot between gears, there has to be one between each gear or it would lock up. Thats why I mentioned putting the range gears in neutral to see if it turned free. If it did, that would lessen the likely hood the reverser was locking up if you could put in in H. L, and R (engine clutch engaged) without it binding up.

User avatar
Johntc23
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:21 pm
Location: SW Oregon

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Johntc23 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:30 pm

I have a 450 straight, 68 year, has the neutral in the same place. Between 3rd & 4th
1968 450 Crawler Loader with 093 Backhoe

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450 diff/ final drive

Post by Jim B » Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:28 am

Johntc23 wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:30 pm
I have a 450 straight, 68 year, has the neutral in the same place. Between 3rd & 4th
Does the quadrant have a "N" to mark the neutral position?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests