Can someone shine a light on this ?

[pearljam724]

A few days ago I started my 1965 John Deere 450 loader. It was approximately 30-40 degrees. Not long after initial start a hose behind the transmission filter busted. This hose attaches to the radiator on the top and to a hard line that runs along the frame at the bottom of the hose. The hose that busted is not made of the same quality as a hydraulic hose. It’s similar to a coolant hose. But, when it busted it leaked milky hydraulic fluid. And I verified the hydraulic fluid was very low because I lost a lot due to that busted hose. I replaced this hose with an identical quality coolant hose. The 2nd hose busted too, not only did also bust. It busted open in the same exact location on the hose as the previous busted hose. And it was 50 degrees when the second hose busted. What the heck is going on here ? Does anyone have a good explanation ?
https://youtu.be/1qNbnmqckUA

[Jim B]

If you look closely at your radiator, you will see that there is a separate section attached on the right side of it. That is the transmission oil cooler. The hose that blew is attached to the top of the oil cooler, not the radiator, isn't it? If so, it may look like coolant hose, but it is not. It needs to be a low-pressure (I don't have the JD spec, but likely 200-300 psi working pressure rating) oil service hose. Coolant grade hose will not hold up long term for oil service. In the 450 parts catalog several of those hoses show as to be made from T61939 bulk hose (3/4"), if you get it from JD, or they may have another number meeting or exceeding that hose spec. Check out the link to the parts catalog page below.

Milky fluid indicates a water contamination issue which could cause problems with flow through the cooler, among other things. That is an oil to air cooler, so coolant is not causing the contamination. Oil and filter changes would appear to be in order.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/171301

[pearljam724]

No that’s not the case. The hose attaches to a 1 inch radiator inlet/outlet nipple. The other end attaches to a hard line that runs along the frame. This hose does not attach to the base that holds the transmission filter. I explain and show what I’m referring to in a youtube video link I attached to my original post. It also has hydraulic fluid in it. I could see it leaking out on each hose after each one busted.

[TuolumneGuy]

Is got a plugged up filter and building too much pressure?

[pearljam724]

That might be a good suggestion. But, the filter doesn’t appear to be very old. I know looking at the filter could be deceiving. But, the this is. This hose does not connect to the transmission filter base. It connects to the radiator. My only guess is someone mistakenly put a card plant hose on it when a higher pressure hose should have been fitted. But, the problem with that theory is. I ran the machine for 5-7 hours since I bought it and it never busted then. Why are two different hoses busting now ? Unless,someone knows what’s causing it. I may have no other choice but changing the filter and putting a higher pressure hose in it. Don’t know ?

[Jim B]

Again, please look closely at your radiator. There is a transmission oil cooler (oil to air) bolted to the right side of the radiator. It has 3/4" Inside diameter hose going to the inlet and the outlet. In my post this morning, I gave you a link to the parts catalog page that shows the hoses and tubes you describe, so you could get part numbers. Here is a link to the page in the parts catalog showing the radiator (item key # 2) and the oil cooler (item key # 3) that mounts tight to the right side of it. The oil inlet is at the top and the outlet is on the bottom and it goes to the filter before returning to the transmission. The flow paths are in your service manual. Outlet pressure will be in the 50 to 70 psi range and there could be 80 to 100 psi higher pressure at the inlet. The manual gives the procedures to check this out. The hose is not a 2 or 4 wire high pressure hose, but it is an oil service hose rated for higher pressure than coolant hose. Have you checked your transmission oil?

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/131675

It's not great, but here is a picture I clipped from your video which shows the radiator with the oil cooler bolted to the right side of it.

[pearljam724]

I understand what and where the oil cooler is located. It has the filter attached as in picture, correct ? The hose i’m referring to is part number 10 in your previous post where it shows the hose routing. This hose is directly behind the oil cooler but is not attached to it. But, your saying it’s routed to the oil cooler ? Because on the machine and that hose routing diagram it doesn’t appear that way. I apologize if i’m not understanding what your trying to tell me. I realize the hose might need to replaced with one that is made to withstand more pressure or the filter may need changed. If that doesn’t work. Im out of ideas as to what is causing it. I realize why oil becomes milky white. Even though it needs changed. I don’t see it to be over alarming as these oils are in places under pressure due to heat and don’t necessarily have a place to expand to under heat and this causes moisture alone.

[Jim B]

Here is the best I can tell you from watching your video, reviewing info in the parts catalog, the manuals I have access to, and what I have worked on these machines/systems. I very much hope others will chime in and correct me if I have it wrong here, I don't want to mislead you.

The only hydraulic system hoses and tubes in that area are two located below the radiator. They are the hydraulic pump's suction supply line and pressure line. Both of which attach to the main hydraulic pump below the radiator. If the baffle plate, at the bottom of the radiator, is still in your crawler you may not see the pump and its lines. The filter, oil cooler, and the three hoses in your video are all part of the transmission oil system, not the hydraulic system.

No, the transmission oil filter is not attached to the oil cooler. The transmission filter base (item key # 3) is mounted to the inside of the nose housing, not the radiator, and is located ahead of the oil cooler as shown in your video. The filter base does not have a cooler built in it.

Hose, # 10 (3/4" x 24-1/2") is in front of the transmission oil cooler, runs from a steel tube (mounted on the frame) at its lower end, up the right side of the nose housing between the oil cooler and the filter, and connects to the oil cooler inlet tube, not a radiator connection, at the front top of the oil cooler.

Hose # 23 (3/4" x 19") runs from the oil cooler outlet (front bottom of the cooler) to the transmission filter base. That oil cooler connection is visible in your video.

Hose # 5 (3/4" x 14") runs from the transmission filter outlet to a steel tube mount on the frame that returns the oil to the transmission.

The way hoses # 5 and # 23 are shown in the drawing gives a false impression, if one doesn't read the description to see the actual lengths. They are not short hoses as the drawing shows, they are actually near the same length as hose # 10. The parts catalog tells the dealer all three are to be cut from the same bulk hose part number, T61939. (Parker "Push Lok" hose would be another hose I would use if the hose was not available from John Deere. The 801 series 3/4" ID hose has a max working pressure rating of 300 PSI and is approved for hydraulic oil service.)

I don't have access to a copy of SM 2064 Service Manual to tell you the section/pages the info is on, but in the powertrain section you should find drawings showing the transmission oil flow through the system with a write-up of how the system works. TM1033 for the 450B shows this info, as does TM1330 for my 450E. There is way more info there than typing here would be practical and there are related drawings with component locations marked.

In your video the oil cooler to radiator interface is visible, behind the oil filter. The oil cooler is only 4-5 inches wide and visible at the left of your video, mounted hard to the radiator. The capscrews holding the cooler to the radiator are visible in your video which shows the vertical joint between the two. The fins of the two items look different, with the oil cooler fins at the left, appearing lighter in color than the radiator fins.

There is a protective relief valve in the H-L-R valve body that should open if the cooler pressure differential is too great between the oil cooler inlet and outlet pressure. The oil filter has a relief valve built into it that is supposed to open (at about 15-20 psi) if the oil filter plugs. There is a description of all that in the service manual along with testing info. John Deere T19044 is the correct filter for the transmission.

Milky oil in the transmission oil, or hydraulic oil, is not good. Milky, but not frothy/foamy is generally a sign of water contamination. If it is milky from frothing/foaming that is a sign of a leak somewhere at a suction point, allowing air to be pulled into a system. I would expect your transmission oil to be low if you have blown that hose a couple times. Low oil levels can cause frothing.
Jim

[pearljam724]

Back in business guys. Changed filter and hose to a higher pressure hose this evening. All is good. No more busted hoses or leaks. I see what you’re saying now, Jim. The oiler cooler looks like it’s part of the radiator. But, now I see what you were saying. Man, thank goodness the oil cooler is still good. From what I have found there is absolutely nothing available for a 65 JD 450. If you need new parts seems like just about everything is not available. With exception of very common stuff. Filters and maybe a starter. That’s about it. I’m going to have to hunt down the nearest large equipment junk yard in hope of maybe finding a couple parts.

[Jim B]

Admittedly there are parts that are No Longer Available (NLA), but many are available between new and used. Use the parts catalog to find the part numbers and search using the number with the name in the parts catalog. I have better luck doing that than searching for 1965 John Deere 450 part by name, like you might for a lot of car parts. 4219 engine parts are available. Lavoy sells a number of parts for crawlers and may have leads on places to check if he doesn't have what you need. John Deere has parts as do a number of aftermarket sources. A good JD construction dealer should be able to do a system search to see if another dealer might have old stock available if you ask. And there are many used parts available. It does take some digging for them at times. And often it is better to make a call and talk with someone, not just go by what you might see listed at a website. Just what I have found over the years.

Good to hear you got it going. Add your general location to your profile then the guys can see about where you are, and might have leads for you.

[pearljam724]

Thank you, my local John Deere is worthless. I will follow your suggestions.