John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

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John1987
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John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:25 am

I have rebuilt my transmission dozer pull good for 30-45 minutes then starts acting up and then quits pulling

Jim B
350 crawler
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by Jim B » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:52 am

Welcome to the Boards.

For housekeeping purposes your posts about your 450C should be on the Late Models Board. That board is where most of the information on the 350s 450s and newer models is. Lavoy or a moderator will likely move this over there when they see it.

Some background info may help here. First question, because over the years many 450's received 450C decals, have you confirmed by the serial number that your machine is a C series?

Do you have the correct Technical manual (TM1102 for a 450C) for your crawler? Was the engine clutch replaced? Did you do all the adjustments in the manual, in the order given, after assembling? Have you check the pressures when it has been warmed up? What are you using for fluid in the HLR?

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:10 pm

Pressure is about 180 did not change engine clutch whinch still work when it stops pulling thinking transmission oil cooler lines could be crossed need to know were they hook up which one is pressure line

Jim B
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Location: western Maine

Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by Jim B » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:03 am

Would you consider posting your serial number to confirm it is a 450C, not a mis-labeled 450. I ask as the 450 used a different hose routing for the transmission oil cooler and filter.

Your Technical manual should have flow drawings which give you the information that will show you where the hoses go. The manuals I have for a couple other JD crawlers have those drawings. I don't have a 450C tech manual, but the online parts catalog shows the hose routing. I looked at the 450D which has the same routing, and that drawing is a little better to understand than the one they put in the 450C catalog, here is a link to the 450D drawing that should answer your question of where the hoses go.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... /pgId/5364

What caused you to rebuild the transmission? Was it this same condition?

Does it stop pulling (moving?) in both forward and reverse?

Does it do this when not under a load or only when pushing hard?

Is the 180 psi reading when it is warm and stops pulling (moving?) moving or when it is cold at start up?

I expect there are othe pressure checks given in your manual. Have you done any of those other pressure checks?

After installing the transmission, did you do all the adjustments, starting with the engine clutch and clutch valve, in the manual in the order given?

Are you pulling a large load with the winch when the transmission stops pulling?

What fluid are you using in the transmission?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. We can't see your machine. Asking questions, and your answers to those questions, is the only way we can get information as we try to help you, even if some seem irrelevant.

Jim

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:33 am

The transmission case was cracked hi did not work that's why I rebuilt it. Now it stops pulling whether I'm pushing or just traming when it's stops pulling oil pressure stayed the same 180 psi i can go back the next day an it will pull for about th same time an then stops i done clutch adjustment I could never get the pressure to rise the 5 to 10 psi when pushing clutch in on the Freeplay does that mean 3 3/4 till throw out bearing touches pressure plate I used trans hydraulic oil from Napa not sure if my oil cooler lines are hooked up right is the line that comes out of my transmission with steering line my pressure line

Jim B
350 crawler
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by Jim B » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:30 am

Click the link I posted for you to see a drawing of how the hoses go between the transmission oil cooler and filter.

Yes, 3-3/4" is the pedal travel before the throwout bearing contacts the pressure plate fingers.

As long as the NAPA fluid you got meets the John Deere J20C spec it should be fine.

How big of a load can you pull with the winch after the crawler stops traveling?

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:36 am

I have the oil cooler lines crossed do you think that would be my problem the which has the power to pull the dozer up hill

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:38 am

I have the oil cooler lines crossed do you think that would be my problem the which has the power to pull the dozer up hill

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:52 am

That link show for a 450d would the oil line be the same

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by Jim B » Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:38 pm

Yes, as I posted when I gave you that link, the 450D hose routing is the same as the 450C. The 450D drawing is better than the one in the 450C parts catalog as it shows the transmission, oil cooler and filter outlines with the hoses routed to them, which was not done in the 450C parts drawing.

I would recommend correcting the hose routing. However, I don't think just crossing the lines would do that, as long as the oil could circulate. If it did cause the crawler to stop, I don't think it would not take a half hour of running before it stopped if crossed lines were causing it to stop, I think it would stop much quicker than that.

Did you install new hoses, or did you reuse the old ones? I ask as if you installed new hoses, I hope you used hose rated for oil service. Many people have made the mistake of using heater hose for those cooler hoses, because it looks like heater hose. It is not heater hose; heater hose will fail in a short time when used in oil service.

Again, can you pull a large load with the winch when the crawler stops moving?

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:03 pm

Yes it will which the dozer up hill I pull good I have my steering pressure line hooked up to the return line on the transmission I thought that might be my problem that it is not getting anuff pressure to engage how can I tell if my clutch adjustment is right the one that on the shaft coming out of bellhousin the one that the adjusting bolt thread into

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:12 pm

I put new hose rated for oil some one said were ihad a rebuilt manifold for me to use 15-40 motor oil said the trans an hydraulic oil I was using was to thin an it was bypass the manifold rings

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by Jim B » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:15 am

I believe your 450C Operator's Manual called for John Deere Hy Gard hydraulic transmission fluid, not 15-40. At the time it was built J14A and J20A were the John Deere specs referenced for those and substitutes. Those two specs are outdated and have been superseded by the current spec, which is John Deere Hy Gard, or a UTHF, meeting John Deere's J20C specification. The current Hy Gard and UTHF meeting the J20C spec are backwards compatible to cover the old specs. No idea what trans or hydraulic oil you were using, but Hy Gard, or a J20C UTHF, should not have an issue with "bypassing manifold rings". Plain Hydraulic oil is not for use in these machines.

Your manual should help you find the right port to hook the steering valve supply to. It is supposed to be supplied by a main pressure port from the transmission pump so the steering valve supply pressure should match the main transmission pressure. Hook up a gauge in the supply line and see what pressure is going into the steering valve. Hooking the supply for the steering valve to a return line does not sound correct.

Regarding you question on telling if your clutch is adjusted right, I don't see how I can say if you have it right or wrong, I have no way to check it.
The best I can say is you need to make all the adjustments as given in the manual and see that they match the information given in your manual, for the clutch pedal and the clutch valve. If what you find does not match up, then the cause of the mismatch has to be found. Perhaps someone will pitch in other info on this.

Sorry I don't have a better answer for you. Perhaps the person you had rebuild the manifold could lend you a hand sorting this out.

John1987
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Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by John1987 » Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:00 pm

I swap my oil cooler lines an got my steering pressure line on the pressure line an adjust the clutch valve I had perfect pressure dozer pulled good then I was pushing with it then I stopped an started back then transmission pressure started dropping at low ideal it got about 80psi an at full throttle pressure is 175psi I tried adjustment clutch no improvement I put two pennies in pressure valve an pressure did not rise when I press clutch pedal all the way down at low rpm the pressure will rise to 90-100 is my pump bad I don't understand it it was running perfect the best it has since I got it back together

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: John Deere 450c dozer transmission problems

Post by Jim B » Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:09 pm

There could be a seal leaking more when warmed up. There could be a valve hanging up. A worn pump could produce less pressure when it warms. When you rebuilt your transmission did you go through the pump and make sure it was all within spec and rebuild it if not. When you rebuilt your transmission did you reseal everything like the transmission clutches? Did you go through all the valves?

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