JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

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marcg007
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JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:13 am

Hello everyone!!

Getting the antifreeze in the oil issue on my 78 jd450c tracked loader with a 4219t. So im putting repair options down on paper.

I often see posts of rebuilding motors, but i dont often see which manufacturer kit people can recommend, or have gone with and have had no problems.

Or kits people have had problems with. Or possibly can compare from one kit experience to another.

So i post this with asking who's rebuild kits do you recommend with all the choices out there available? And which have you had or heard about problems with?

Also, when i break down the motor i hope i will not find a cracked or weakened block due to cavitation pitting etc. However if i do, is it worth repairing the 219 block or should i source a used or rebuilt block? Any recommendations where. Located in Maine if that helps.

one more question, while it still runs, before i start the tare down, would the in frame rebuild be easier if i raise the loader bucket? should i raise and block the loader bucket, or use angle iron and choke the lift cylinders, or combination of both for redundancy. Or simply leave the bucket on the ground?

thanks guys, your input is appreciated !!!

marc

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by B Town » Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:26 am

Hello Marc,

I use kits made by Reliance. Local distribution for me is Endurance Power in Lincoln, NE.

There use to be many more builders/ manufacturers. A&I use to be very competitive in pricing. They very putting such a hurting on the big boys, that the big boy bought them up. As you can imagine, prices have went up.

Definitely raise the loader and use heavy angle iron on each loader ram to block the lift cylinders in the up position. Properly secure the angle iron so it doesn’t deflect or pop out.

Bruce

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:10 pm

John Deere bought A&I. Most John Deere dealers sell at least some of the A&I product as a price option for people. You have to check the prices as some OEM JD parts are less expensive than the A&! option.

I have used some kits from TISCO/SMA. I think Lavoy may be a dealer for them.

I believe your 4219T is supposed to have an oil to coolant oil cooler, mounted right under the oil filter. I would pressure check it to be sure it isn't leaking, just to rule that possibility out before tearing the engine down.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:52 pm

Bruce thanks for responding. Appreciate the insight. I will check the reliance rebuild kits. I just grabbed the engine tag info today.

Jim thanks for the heads up with the oil cooler info. i will check with the possibility that it failed. Man that would be great. I would hate to have to rebuild the unit. there is close to 0 blow by even from a cold start.

so the engine tag reads 4219CT 02 439880T. The chassis tag reads 450CA 287227T. The Block reads R55011 & R?5034. the ? digit is unreadable but maybe a 5 or 6

I will need to research some of the details on which kit applies to this motor. look over & check for an oil cooler, & if applies read up on the oil cooler and checkup procedure.

i checked the oil today and it was super thick. i vacuumed out 2 quarts with my boat oil change pump, rechecked level & fired it up, moved it 20 ft and lifted the bucket all the way up, dropped it a little, and pinned it against a 80-100 yr old eastern white pine. the tractor is on a slight slope down into the tree, so there's very very little chance the bucket will drop. I just need to make sure there is no super windy days ahead. I placed the brake and shes gonna sit that way for a bit till i figure this all out. I really should replace the main lift hoses, they are in rough shape, but i can tell it might be difficult the way the lines flow through the bucket lift frame and down behind the cylinder. Any tips there?

thoughts for later, besides a standard oil change, whats the best way to flush the old milky oil?

thanks for the insight. appreciate it

marc

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by 78turbo » Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:07 am

I just did a complete rebuild with the reliance parts and was very happy with the quality of the parts. They also offer a standard compression and a high compression kit. I opted for the high compression kit for a little boost in power. The part number was RP720 from AgKits.com as they seemed to have the best prices at the time.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:36 am

z8 thanks for the response. I have seen reliance part boxes in the background of a few youtube videos. I will definitely check that website link. So i have to ask, do you know the compression difference from standard to high compression? I have seen in other "high compression" applications possibly a thinner head gasket, or a slightly taller piston design. few thousandths or whatever. Brings the head down and piston higher to get a higher compression ratio. Curious how the high compression kit differs.

So i dug in a little deeper. Antifreeze in the oil, NO oil in the antifreeze. Or IF there is oil in the antifreeze / radiator, there was not any oil visible when i drained the radiator. So I will say, a week back when i first discovered the antifreeze in the oil, i immediately checked the coolant level. While the motor was running, i did see a few small white/grey blobs circulate by when i was peering down into the radiator. So if there is oil in the antifreeze it wasnt much, and it either stuck to the radiator walls or the filter removed it.

So, at this point I think, this most likely rules out a head gasket. ? I ran out of time yesterday to properly remove the oil filter cooler and pressure test it. looks like theres a few days of rain coming so maybe a few days before i get into it again. i did happen to remove the front cowling and belly pan /skid plate. drain antifreeze. moved crawler back off of tree cause there maybe some winds coming.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by boaterri » Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:00 am

I have recently changed out the hydraulic hoses on the lift cylinder on my 450C. If you support the lift cylinder with a strap, pull the pin at the pedestal end, and retract the cylinder before removing the hoses it is alot easier to access the fittings. Reverse the process when done. While you are in there, do the curl hoses as well.

Rick

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:15 pm

boaterri wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:00 am
I have recently changed out the hydraulic hoses on the lift cylinder on my 450C. If you support the lift cylinder with a strap, pull the pin at the pedestal end, and retract the cylinder before removing the hoses it is alot easier to access the fittings. Reverse the process when done. While you are in there, do the curl hoses as well.

Rick
Excellent tip. wow. Great idea. i appreciate you taking the time to share.
I was looking at the hoses, from the back, the side, underneath, and already MF'ing the whole process. im sure this will save a bunch of headaches.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by boaterri » Mon May 01, 2023 6:48 am

Happy to help, good luck, be safe.

Rick

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Tue May 02, 2023 6:22 am

Well got the oil cooler out, and unfortunately as i suspected, it held pressure. tested oil cooler to 60psi. i guess out comes the motor!! Damn another project i dont have the time for. I need the world to stop for 6months so i can catch up on all the projects.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by B Town » Tue May 02, 2023 9:05 am

Motor may not need to come out. This is a wet sleeve motor, you can in-frame rebuild(assuming your block is good). If you find evidence of cavitation and pin holes in the lower liners, you may be luck and have a good block.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Wed May 03, 2023 8:03 am

i keep going back an forth, to pull the motor or try an in frame.

if I pull the motor i can work on it in the garage an get motor to waist level when working on it. Which probably means less overall leaning forward into the frame, my lower back will thank me. I Cant pull the crawler into the garage to do an inframe, my ceiling isnt high enough to raise the bucket to an acceptable level.

The Other Problem is i cant make this decision without never having pulled a jd motor, or a crawler/ dozer motor.

Weighing in the extra time to pull or attempt in frame, not truly knowing what needs to be disassembled to pull. I have plenty of means to raise motor out, between chain brakes, skidsteer or a smaller komatsu excavator. i have a feeling i should pull it. I just dont know how many hidden bolts down in the frame or bell housing i gotta deal with. it is a new piece of equipment to me. I haven't found a step by step or a video yet, not that i need that, but it could shed me some insight to make this decision. so there is some hesitation. would take me an extra 6 hrs to remove the motor, or 4 , or 12. Whatever has to be removed from the turbo down is what it is, either way.

Anyone have any insight on what i will face for motor removal? things like hidden bolts, excess part removal to get to certain bolts, output shaft or bell housing issue? these hidden things i will face for this 450c motor removal?

Anyone weigh in their experience? "To pull or not to pull, that is the question??"

thanks

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by B Town » Wed May 03, 2023 9:08 am

The engine is held to the bell housing with four bolts. Really very simple to pull engine.

I don’t have a sleeve puller, so I would drop the belly pan and oil pan and pull the head. This way I could use my port-a-power to push the sleeves out( using the weight of the crawler to help push the sleeves). I could then pull the engine.

Exhaust off, engine side screens off, drop belly pan, hood off, hard nose off. Radiator drained and out. Uncouple hyd pump, remove hyd pump mount. Remove wiring, fuel line/filters, remove starter, only four bolts in the bell housing.

If this machine is new to you or were unable to determine operation of the clutch it may be best to remove engine and service rear main, clutch, throw-out brg. You can also assess the front of the HLR.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by Jim B » Wed May 03, 2023 9:41 am

If the crank needs work, you need to replace the main bearings, or rear main seal; you can't do those without pulling the engine.

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Re: JD 450c 4219t, Who manufactuers reputable rebuild kits?

Post by marcg007 » Thu May 04, 2023 8:12 am

speaking of hlr , sounds like someone threw a bunch of metal balls in the transmission. when the clutch is pressed all the way in the noise stops. the noise is best described as a growling, deep rumbling tone, with a repeating noise level pattern that goes up and down with intensity. when at idle in neutral you can hear it as well.the noise will increase with higher rpm in neutral.

With not ever seeing any pictures of this transmission internals, if i had to guess, it sounds like a chain that fell off a roller and is now rolling over the edge of a metal corner. Hoping its the throw bearing.

So far as jimb had mentioned, pretty straight forward. I Removed all accessories yesterday, motor should be out today. so far about 9hrs to learn and remove all the connections, including the time back an forth to locate tools in-between the shops. Spent an hour alone on the lower starter bolt, till i found the wobble extension.

Praying to whomever its some liner o-rings an not any other issue's with the block.

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