350 Fuel injector timing gear question

[The Jug]

Hello all. I have a straight 350 SER# 070582T motor MU31F3152 Ser # 106008T.Was running fair but would quit after about 10-30 min of run time. A little smoke but not bad once warmed up. Tracked it down to fuel injection pump. Mouse turds in view window. So, I went thru procedures for removal with fly wheel timing mark, top dead center on compression stroke, insert timing pin make sure timing marks are lined up on fuel injector pump. So good to go on removal. Had pump rebuilt.958 dollars later and a week and a half. So, when i went to reinstall pump i noticed fuel injector gear shaft was very movable. Up down left right. Got pump installed primed went to start figured i was all good but not so good. Very rough hard to stay running. Loosened pump moved back and forth try to get better time no luck. Before i pull front cover to check timing marks is it possibly that the fuel injector timing gear could have jumped tooth? is the movability due to bad bearing i couldn't really see one in manual. Is there usually that much slop on that shaft? any other pointers before i move to pulling front cover. Last but not least the crank fan pully is that usually a bear to pull? I did not see puller part number. Any suggestions on any of these would be greatly appreciated.

[LeonardL]

Hey sorry this is late... Your shaft is very movable but should stay in time at the gear. My question is when you reinstalled the IP did you match the "Dots" on the end of the shaft and the matting dot inside the slot that is inside the pump? You could be 180 degrees out on timing if you didn't line those dots up first. Then you should also place the pump where the two lines inside the timing window are in line with each other.

Your crank pulley is hard to pull and you need a two bolt or H bar puller to remove them. If you were considering pulling the front cover then I would wait and see what you have at the shaft and pump first. I really doubt you have jumped a tooth at the timing gears.

[The Jug]

Oh! I did not look for that. Thanks for advice. I have the front pulled apart down to fan pully and cover. I'll be stopping there for now. So, get back to top dead center compression stroke pull pump and i should see marks on shaft and inside pump were shaft slides in? Really hope this will do it. Thanks, will be well worth the little wait for good information. Ill post how i made out. While I'm at it do i need the timing window for this part or is that for fine tuning once engine is up and running halfway decent? Thanks again !

[LeonardL]

Yes, get your pin lined in the flywheel so the motor is back at top dead center and on number one cylinder. there will be a dot on the end of the shaft and then there is a dot inside the pump.

Once you have the two dots aligned and the pump loosely secured then you line up the two lines inside the timing window. Then secure your pump in that position. You should be good to go. There really is no more tuning to the pump once you have it in place. The pump rebuilder should have set things inside the pump while they had it at their shop. There are timing adjustments that can be made but you won't have the special tools needed to do that. So don't try to mess with your pump settings or you will need to send it off again.

[The Jug]

Very disappointed! For once in my life I’m not happy I dident screw up . Both marks were in line . Watt direction would you go next . I was thinking getting the after market injectors out and replace with OME . While I have out do compression check to double check my overhaul work . I did new sleeves ,pistons , rings , machined head , new seats , valve stems or go other way continue with timing cover removal ? Fuel system has new hose from tank to new after market pump . Original fuel filter housing new filters . Original steal tube from filter to pump (looked in great condition . Not sure . Any advice would be great .

[LeonardL]

My first question is how long have you let the machine run after you re-installed the injector pump? Some times they will run rough until they get all of the air worked out of the system.

So what exactly is the engine doing when you first start it? Is there a dead miss? As in one cylinder not hitting at all? Also what does it do if you increase the RPM? How does it respond? Is it quick to respond or is it slow and sluggish? If you haven't already done so, I would let it run for a few minutes to see if it levels out. If not then it's time to proceed in a different direction.

If it doesn't settle out then I would definitely check compression and maybe change the injectors for known good ones. Do this before taking the front cover off. Which that brings another question to mind... did you have the front of the motor apart when you overhauled it? As in did you have the gears off on the front of the engine. If you did then maybe you do have a timing issue.

[The Jug]

Front end cover stayed on . I did replace the two small gasket’s. As for operation fires right up . Before replacement need a to crank the crap out of it . Real rough running and won’t run for long then shuts right down almost seams like dead stop . Almost sounded like spun bearing screech once or twice not all the time .maybe two part problem . But all this came about after pump change . Before change would run and push dirt for 10-15 minutes then would not start till cool down . No funny noises either . I think you are correct I need to put back together enough to run see we’re it’s at if adjustments did anything and pay attention to get you more information. I appreciate the help .

[The Jug]

If I may ask the front cylinder away from operating station is number on cylinder . Correct?

[LeonardL]

Your number one cylinder is the closest to the front of the engine. First cylinder behind the front cover / water pump area.

[The Jug]

Ya just checking on that is watt I figured as well as in manual, but you never know. So, I tried running it kind of wants to run then dies out. Going to try tomorrow with fresh battery. I noticed white smoke from cylinder 3. I may try to run in Jerry can and eliminate bad fuel /flow issue. Is there a screen / filter on IP or if something gets that far it’s too late? Is white smoke going to be unburnt desial fuel?

[The Jug]

So, i connected to jerry can. No luck. won't stay running tries to run getting lots of white smoke from cylinder 3 (I'm assuming that's unburnt diesel)
I'm thinking i need to start from the basics. Recheck compression. Then recheck valve clearance. Watts the chance fuel injector pump shop made a mess of pump somehow. I believe they use a test bench at the end to make sure it's all good. So more likely something that i did. What trouble me is it was seemingly running fine before IP service. Problem was it would die out after 10-15 min run at load time. Could it be so that im 180 out of sync? When i took IP pump off the first time i made the rookie mistake and never checked the hash marks on end of shaft. Would it make sense to try reversing marks so there not lined up? Or is it time to pull that front timing cover?

[LeonardL]

I'm thinking you have gotten it out of time. I wouldn't just flip the pump 180 to try and fix it that way. I would pull the pump back and then make sure you have the motor at top center on number one at compression stroke. Your timing pin should fit into the hole in the flywheel and there is also a timing mark on the crankshaft pulley that should align with a mark on the engine front cover. If all of that lines up then your pump shaft dot on the end should be at the top. Make sure that the IP Dot is also at the top and reinstall it. Then line the two lines at the timing window and then tighten the pump.

I doubt the pump shop has done anything wrong. Not saying it isn't possible but I never had an issue with any pump shop that I used and I have used several. It's pretty hard to mess up a Rossa / Stanadyne pump. It can be done don't get me wrong, it's just not likely at a pro shop.

[The Jug]

I'm going to try that for sure. Will i need to pull radiator to see marks? Are they obvious? I do have hood pulled as of now. Just want to toss this on the table. I was getting ready to do compression test on number 3 cylinder the one i believe is giving me the trouble i had injector out of engine and she fired right up. So, after pulling pump /top dead center cylinder one/line up timing marks on front /make sure lines in IP timing window line up and dots line up facing up hopefully this will do it watts the chances exhaust valve stuck? During rebuild i had sent to machine shop to plain down and do valve seats and valve replacement. So I'll bet you will think not but figured i would ask. Thanks for all your help. Its kind of been a long project seeing i only get up north to machine every other weekend to maybe once a month. all the locals are wondering if i should stick to electrical but admitting ive gotten further than expected. The idea of this is stop her from becoming scrap which was where she was heading.

[LeonardL]

I really doubt you have a valve stuck. Not saying it isn't possible because anything is possible on these machines. Just not likely it's a stuck valve. You can remove the valve cover and watch them as you crank it over or bar it over if that would make you feel better. You should be able to see if the valves are opening and closing.

As for the timing marks on the front of the engine. You should be able to see the front marks without pulling the radiator. You most likely will have to clean the area where the mark is on the front engine cover and then the crank pulley may need to be cleaned as well. Not knowing the condition of your machine I'm guessing it's probably pretty dirty down there. You should be able to look underneath the alternator looking at the area where the front crankshaft pulley is located. The mark on the front cover is cast into the aluminum cover. It is very similar to a timing mark on an older car motor. There will be a TDC line on the counter weight or the crank damper/ pulley. There may be other marks on the damper as well so be sure the line has either TDC or a 0 on or at the line. This is the top dead center line according to the front marks. The line on the damper will line up with the mark on the front cover. You will need a good light to shine some light down in this area I'm referring to and it is a little bit of a challenge to see. But it is there and once you see it it is obvious. I hope this helps

[The Jug]

Thanks much! Just FYI the old girl was steam cleaned and fresh coat of top-notch paint to help keep her clean. Looking forward to heading north again to get this part under way. Just very puzzled wye it won't start with cylinder 3 injector installed but disconnected from IP then when removed fires right up .