450 frame to bell housing bolts

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dsm
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450 frame to bell housing bolts

Post by dsm » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:08 am

On the sides there are two bolts going thru the frame rail into what looks like the bell housing. One on the right side appeared to be loose (top one). Went to tight it up and found it snapped off about 2 inches inside the hole.
I'm wondering if the hole goes thru or does it have a bottom? I don't want to drill thru and get cuttings inside anything critical.
Going to have to use a very long drill or else pull the track. The bolt is just above the track preventing a straight shot at it with the drill.

Any tips on getting this bolt out?

dsm
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Post by dsm » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:20 am

The one below was loose also. Doesn't appear to have any weight on it. I'm guessing the're are other supports holding it up.
I was thinking about removing it to see what the size is. Also check the depth of the hole. (assuming the upper and lower holes are the same)

dsm
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Post by dsm » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:52 pm

Yikes!!! Both right side bolts have snapped off.

What's the best method of removing htese bolts? It's gonna take a long drill bit or I got to pull the track.

dsm
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Post by dsm » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:19 am

Anyone? I've read these are notorious for coming loose an snapping off.

Someone has to know a good way of extracting them.

What about a pipe in the hole then stick weld thru the pipe (blind welding) to the remaining bolt. Then use a pipe wrench to remove the bolt.

Or would the reverse drill bit and an extractor (easy out) work?
I think I can remove the top roller and bracket and lower the track out of the way for the top bolt hole, raise it up to get access to the bottom hole.

Either way, it ain't going to be fun.

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CatD8RII
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Post by CatD8RII » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:04 am

Im not familair with the 450s but I beleive the 350s have a similar setup. If the bolts that broke were loose when they broke the easy out might work otherwise theyre a waste of time. You could try the pipe trick however I've had better luck using a nut. Just use a nut thats smaller than the OD of your broken bolt. Drilling a hole in the broken bolt will also give the weld a place to flow into. Then you can use a socket on the welded nut. To get all the clearance possible loosen up your tracks and like you said take the carrier roller off. Might not hurt to get 2 or 3 track pads off either.

dsm
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Post by dsm » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:20 am

The real problem is the bolt piece is recessed 2" down the hole. Plus the lower hole has a section of frame that I'll have to work thru. Making any drill or easy out way short unless I weld on a long extension.

It looks like a $pecial JD bolt goes in there. I hope they are still available.

country53
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450 broken bolt

Post by country53 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:10 pm

I am not familar with a 450 JD. However I am a Tool&Die Maker and have taken out several broken bolts. If a bolt was broken trying to loosen it an easyout won't work. If it was loose(head not being down to peice) and you cranked on it and it broke it is probably seized and it probably still won'tcome out with an easyout. If you break an easy out off in a hole you will have to get an EDM machine to burn it out. So if you have a set of easy outs clean em up and put em on display. If the bolt is broke off deep take a drill the same size as the bolt shank stick it in the hole and spot face the end of the stud. Go back in with the proper size tap drill and drill to required depth. Turn tap in cautiously and blow off with compressed air often and well lubed. Extended taps and drills are available from McMaster-Carr or MSC up to 18" or J&L Industrial for special order. Hope this helps I'm a lot better at doing than talking or writing.

dsm
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Post by dsm » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:10 pm

Thanks Country53.
The bolt was loose when I found it. So, I am assuming it sheared off due to being loose. It didn't break with me wrenching on it.

You sound like you've done this before but, I'm not quite understanding this part:

"If the bolt is broke off deep take a drill the same size as the bolt shank stick it in the hole and spot face the end of the stud..."

Its gonna take those long 18" reverse bits if I go at it.

Its sounds like your the guy I need here locally to get these bolts out.

digitup
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Post by digitup » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:25 pm

That is a typical 450-450B problem .The bolts should be lose and will come out with the right amount of beer and curse words .Make sure that the hole lines up nice for the coming out party for that threaded part .I had to put a jack under the rad and just slightly lift it .Use grade 8 bolts only and keep them tight .I got an extra long 3/4 inch extension for that set and kept that ratchet on the dozer at all times . It is one of the few week spots on that dozer .I tried thread lock but it never worked just check the bolts every 8or 10 hours and keep them tight .It has been a long time since I had my dozer do that but I popped those bolts by dropping over a sharp edge and landing on one track hard . [Not one of those things you want to admit to but it happens].Good luck .Digitup.

dsm
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Post by dsm » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:37 am

digitup, What did you use to get 'em out? They are difficult to get to.



The piece of bolt that came out has an odd shoulder. Can I go back with standard grade 8 bolts?

I think I know when at least one broke. I was prying hard on a stump with the loader when it finally popped up. I heard a loud crack. Got off and looked around and didn't see anything. About 10 minutes later I think to check these bolts.
I can't believe the engine just hangs out there with no front support.

digitup
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Post by digitup » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:52 pm

The later 450Bs and the 450Cs had a washer instead of shoulder bolt .See if you can find the parts book #s for the bolts and the washer .How is the other side. The right side is the one that takes the most .Digitup

dsm
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Post by dsm » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:41 pm

Yep, its the right side. Both bolts. Left side is good and tight.
I found some left hand drills today. Going to try and make an extension for them with a sleeve to keep it centered in the hole.
Hopefully they will walk out when I drill.

Also, I picked up a piece of pipe for plan "B". Slide pipe down the hole then weld thru the center to the bolt. Unscrew the bugger with a pipe wrench.

Thanks for all the tips.

Wish me luck!

Got to go pick up some Molson.

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:14 am

Hi,

Luck!

;)

Stan
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dsm
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Post by dsm » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:34 pm

More rain today. At least I got a good start on the Molson and was able to make the drill bit and easy out extensions.

I'll need more Molson.

dsm
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Post by dsm » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:19 pm

Easy out wasn't so easy. The bolt didn't budge.
Perhaps I needed more Molson.

On to Plan "B"...

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