JD 450C vs. Cat D3B

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I have a line on a decent enough looking and operating Cat D3B.

From what I can find, the years they were made correspond to those of the JD 450C. Now, the 450C is something I'm familiar with. The D3B is something I am *not* familiar with. Anyone around here familiar with both that can give some basics regarding what's similar and what is not between these two dozers?

I mean, from the oustside they're the same basic size and whatnot. What I want to know about is what's on the inside - mainly what would I need to be worrying about if I wind up with the D3B......

Thanks!

Stan

[JR]

Stan,
I can't tell you differences but as I own a D3B it is a good dozer. I knew the previous owner who ran it in his construction business for years and he told me it worked well and it has worked well for me also. Mine has a winch and arch and six way. Actually it is pictured in the photos under "crawler woos splitter" I posted a while ago. Good luck

JR

[digitup]

The D3B is not balanced as nice but a Winch will improve it The 450 will use less fuel and is direct drive compared to the torque converted Cat ,They both have good resale but are two different machines . compare head gasket $ and you will buy a Deere any day as Cat can get $ crazy on some parts .Digitup.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Ah. That's the sort of info I've been looking for. I find it surprising that net searches for the Cat seem to come up rather sparse on data.

I'm still trying to find data on the driveline and steering systems used - and the fact that it has a torque converter vs. direct drive is a case in point. That never came up in any of the searches. Nor can I find if it has wet or dry steering clutches.

You'd think with the popularity of the Cat brand name that there would be sites all over the net covering their various products.

Your comment about parts cost is scary. I think Deere is way high most of the time yet you mention that Cat is worse. Wow.

Maybe I'll keep looking for a 450C and this would be a case of the 'devil you know' vs. starting over from scratch and knowing next to nothing in the case of the Cat. Well, in my case, the 450C would be the 'devil I somewhat know' since I've not yet owned one. You never do *really* know a machine until you've lived with it a while!

Stan

[Rex]

Hi Stan

If you would like a look at a D3 sales brochure try http://www.murphyused.com/specs.php and scroll down the list.

Rex

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Thanks. Very informative. I bookmaked that site before, but somehow managed to lose it. Of course, they didn't have a brochure for the D3B but I can infer quite a bit from the D3 and D3C ones based on what I saw sitting in front of me.

I might wind up with it in the end, but I'm not jumping at it. It is in pretty good shape, especially given the JD450 crawler-shaped piles of scrap iron I've been looking at for the past year. I asked for a price, and he said to 'make an offer', but I don't work that way. I'll wait for him to tell me what he thinks it's worth.

Later!

Stan

[digitup]

I always tell em if you don't put a price on it then don't put it for sale I called a sales man Monday about a Deere160Clc excavator he had for sale and he said what do you think it is worth .I told him to get back to me with a dollar value or forget it Thank you . The D3-D3b-D3c were all made by Mitsubishi Yes the same people that made the Zero those 318 ci 3204 motors are half of a 3208 V8 truck motor they always leaked oil at the back seal but they had great lugging power .We push corn silage every fall and one year I took the Cat 3b and the JD 550 and pushed together to the top of the pile the D3b would push its weight but pushing out stumps the 450E would make it look sick 95% of them were foot pedal steering The 3s were dry clutch steering and the 3bs went wet . I would buy one if it was a good deal and I could use it and still make money in the end .That CAT name always sells .Digitup.

[Tigerhaze]

Hi,

Thanks. Very informative. I bookmaked that site before, but somehow managed to lose it.
Stan

Hey Stan-

If you lose that bookmark again, I had previously posted that link in the "Web Links" forum of this website.

[Farmerford]

I have a D3B, swamp pads, 6 way PAT blade, 3F1R Powershift with torque converter. I also have a 455D crawler loader/backhoe (first cousin to the 450C), HLR Powershift transmission with manual clutch. Each is about 25 years old and has about 6000hrs.

The 455 has required more "small" stuff, including alternator, starter, water pump, trans temp gauge, etc., while the D3B has required "only" a steering clutch/brake rebuild. My D3B clutches are dry, and this is apparently the third rebuild. The prior rebuilder pressed one steering clutch hub too far onto the tapered shaft and split it, so the total clutch/brake rebuild was about $2500 at the Cat dealer (I pulled and reinstalled the clutches).

Although the machines are designed for different chores, I prefer the torque converter drive of the D3B over the "solid" drive of the 455D. I think I am a "gentle" operator and the torque convertor lets me apply force much more gradually than the solid drive on the 455D.

The 455D with turbo is much quieter than the D3B.

Both are pedal steer, and the pedals on the D3B have more "feel" than those on the 455D, and require less force for braking due, I guess, to the wet brakes on the 455D.

Although I have had no transmission problems with either, I know that the HLR Powershift on the 455D is very expensive to repair when the oil manifold finally wears out. Mine had good transmission oil pressure when I bought it four years ago, and the pressure has held up to this point. I would not buy one without thoroughly checking the transmission oil pressure and operation when fully warmed up (ie, hot).

In summary, I like the D3B better than the 455D because it is simpler (no turbo, manual fuel shutoff, transmission) and because it appears to be a bit more heavily constructed. So far, the local Cat and JD dealers have had every part I needed, and I can't tell that one's prices are higher than the others.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies. I feel I can add the D3 to my short list of machines to look at when I see them for sale. If I were to get one, the pedal steering would be different as I'm used to levers, but I don't think that's something that would bother me for more than five minutes.

I'll go back and give the thing a workout. The guy has a dirt lot and several piles for folks to try things on. He's someone I used to race with and gave up being a machine mechanic for one of the local large construction companies to be on his own, so I have no fears about him selling me a pile of scrap iron in the shape of a machine. He doesn't go around buying junk to resell, only reasonably decent machines. In fact, he never repaints what he finds, which is a real good sign in and of itself.

So, I'll go play with it some this weekend and then get into the price discussion if I find I like the thing.

Later!

Stan