Waking up a JD450 from a long sleep

[Lupusrex]

Hi guys,

Being new to this type of machines I´d like your input on getting an old JD450E back to life. Its been standing for at least 5 years, was started about 2 years ago and according to old owner needs the steering cluch fixed (will do when moved to better place based on all the great info on this place)
Anyway,
What concerns me is tracks and transmission. Is there anything that needs to be thought of before firing it up and driving. I don´t want to create more problems on it than there already is.

My game plan is roughly this.

1.Check/fill engine oil, water, fuel tank/filter and radiator for leaks.
2. Check transmission oil so its there and okay
3. Get the engine started, let it get warm and running okay for 10 minutes to get all fluids warm and check for leaks (hopefully none ).
4.Put it reverse and get it hopefully in strait line up on the small road next to it.
5. Drive it forward and pull on the steering levers so see what happens.
6. Get it loaded.

Any other suggestions on what to think of/no-no´s?

BR/Lupusrex

[K LeClair]

OR,
You could sell it to me and you pay the shipping Seriously,everything you mentioned is a good step in bringing her back to life.I sure do like those 450E's.Good luck. Keith

[Lupusrex]

Thanks for the offer but I think it would be slighlty off my budget, although interesting.

Anyway, coming back to the starting.

In the manual downloaded from JD there is a mentioning of "starting fluid" what´s that? Ether or something else?

What´s the purpose more than "cold starting"? in really cold weather?

Any info most appreciated.

BR/Lupusrex

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Yup. Starting Fluid equals Ether. Basically, used only as a last resort when the weather is cold and you just gotta get the thing going.

It's main use as I've experienced it, is to ruin diesel engines requiring more frequent overhauls. I think that's why Deere put starting fluid input ports on the dashboards of so many machines - it helped the dealer out in the service shop area down the road.

When I was growing up, the family business was a dealership, and I recall - vividly - how this stuff ruined things. Deere had come out with their first Turboed tractor based on the 4020 (the 4620 IIRC). It had dire warnings about using SF in the manual, but since it was a 4020 with a new engine, there was a SF port right there on the dashboard.

Well, the first one was sold to a diary farmer that had several 4020's, so guess what he never bothered reading. The first really cold winter day, he just used the can of SF on the port - like he did on the 4020's - and just about blew the head off of the engine. It stretched the head bolts and blew the head gasket, anyway. Six bangs and it wouldn't pop no more!

Deere replaced the entire engine under warranty, and also had us remove those SF ports from every one we had sold......

Later!

Stan

[Lupusrex]

Hi Stan

Thanks for the info. I guess I´ll stay away from that stuff as long as possible and use whatever other method available. I found a can of the JD SF fluid next to the pedals the other day when I was trying to take some pic´s of it. looks like the current owner used that stuff the last time he tried getting it to run.
BTW does the engine in the 450 have glow plugs, heater element or a cold start function on the injector pump?

On the "new" Volvo Truck 12L diesel engines (from -93->) they have a heater element that warms up the intake air at cold start on the intake manifold. Those are the only ones I´ve seen it on and gues that will not be found on the 450.

BR/Fred

[FarmLife]

I have used WD-40 as a safer alternative to ether, it doesn't make the outrageous ammounts of pressure plus it lubricates unlike ether. The 24 valve non common rail Cummins also has the intake air heaters.

[digitup]

I know first hand what ether can do but in this area if you don't have it nothing moves .You don't use more than is needed so figure out what is needed or learn to rebuild it.Ether has killed many a good motor and a few good men so use it sparingly.A small squirt bottle of gas will work as well in the real cold .Now WD 40 doesn't work in the real cold but works fine in the right weather on a lazy engine . My main peeve with ether is that once the motor is started on this stuff often enough it gets dependent on it .Ether drys out side walls and removes the lubrication on the walls leaving the rings and cylinders to destruct with friction .And if you have a preheater you just CAN NOT combine the two . I hear lots of horror stories but it is usually someone that shoved to much go-go juice in in the first place.We have propane start kits on our John Deeres and our Cats now days these work fine as they are built with a timed venturi system making them nearly fool prof . these are called Quick Start units and are even used in the Ford 7.3 and newer ambulances up this way now . What they say is that propane is 87% water and cools as well as ignites hot at the same time leaving the side wall lubrication of diesel fuel alone .this works really good so far our oldest diesel pickup has had this for three years now and works good .A 45 $ bottle at 300 starts is the only setback .I think if you could meter out ether like the new propane injection units do then it would not be as bad .So Don't use any more than it takes to start the old Deere or it is just to hard on them .And the head bolts will stretch on the older Deeres if ignition is to wild . It is to easy to load up on ether So better still if the job can wait find a better day. .Digitup,

[FarmLife]

Last year I had to replace an intake on a diesel forklift that was split in half because somebody didn't heed the warning about using ether. THe intake heater lit it off and cracked the intake manifold. Luckly that was all that broke.

[Lupusrex]

I guess judging by the replies that the "ether solution" will have to come last on the starting alternatives list.
Having said this I´m thinking of maybe using the old Swedish army process for starting in very cold weather.

Basically what they do is that they pre-heat the engine oil in a suitable canister, if you don´t have the purpose built one, and then pour this into the engine before starting. supposedly the oil then flows down through the engine, raises the temp of the engine block in the process which then should make it easier to start.

Its certainly a cumbersome process but then again, it could be sort of interesting to get the experience in doing it. Maybe I´ll use my propane wok burner an the crab cooking bucket, (better ask she who knows best first)

Or maybe it could be worthwhile to hook up one of the diesel engine pre-heater that I´ve got laying around in the shed that runs from the 12 Volt battery.

Question:
When using the "ether" method are we talking a .5sec or 1sec squirt?

BR/Fred

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The old fashioned method was to, and I'm not kidding, build a fire under the engine! This used to be in some old tractor manuals back when they were still on steel!

I always like the old diesel starting method of the pony motor. That little gas engine would fire right up in the cold, and then warm both the water and the intake manifold of the big diesel engine. I recall some of the older Cats having both electric starters for warm weather and ponys for cold.

We had an old 820 Industrial for a uard tractor at the old shop, and that would always get started. Dad would come in, crank the pony, go inside and make a pot of coffee, and then it'd be ready to crank the diesel by the time the coffee was ready. I'd get the job of driving the 820 to pull start whatever needed to go into the shop. We'd let natural heat get 'em going and never used ether.

Not that any of these ancient methods will help you get yours started. You can use ether, but use very small squirts each time. Don't do what most farmers used to, and dump half a can in while cranking. That's when bad things happen! They'd literally spray while cranking until it started. That's just Insane in my book.

You can help the cylinder lubrication by adding a little Marvel Mystery Oil to the fuel. I use 1 oz per 5 gals and have always had happy diesels.

Stan

[FarmLife]

THe other thing we used to do on the older diesels is just point the torpedo heater at the block for a while, but I would also recomend puting some type of block heater on it whenever you do get it going. But they do make dipstick heaters that go in for the dipstick or magnetic heaters that you can stick to the side of the oil pan or the block that plug into household 110v, you could just plug it in and walk away for a while.

[Tigerhaze]

Question:
When using the "ether" method are we talking a .5sec or 1sec squirt?

BR/Fred

I've had to use it for my crawler for a number of reasons I hope to rectify someday. I would recommend less than a half second; think of the ether as "aersol gold" when you spray- just a quick spray of it. Use it as sparingly as possible. The idea is to just get it started kicking over and hopefully the starter wil do the rest.

Also, I don't know about 450s but my 2010 has a pull lever that disconnects the engine from the transmission for cold weather starting. It makes a BIG difference in starting time, especially in cold weather.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

The whole idea of the ether is to fire off just a little under compression such that it puts a little heat into the combustion chamber and that, in turn, will allow the diesel fuel to try to catch. After that, I have, at times, had to keep turning the starter for a few more seconds while the diesel half fires making a wonderful cloud of white smoke in the barn. Eventually, the engine will run by itself on that half burned diesel fuel, and that's when I abandon the machine in the now smoke-filled barn and head out to where the oxygen is!!

You don't want to have so much ether that it actually builds cylinder pressure. Remember, the ether is catching fire from the heat of compression much sooner than the diesel fuel does, so the pistion is not yet at TDC. If you use too much, the danged thing will try to run backwards. That means against the starter and that'll tend to try and cock the pistion in the bore, which is where some of the damage comes from. Plus, this is also when the ether cleans away all the residual lubrication in the cylinder, making even more damage.

So, as they used to say in some hair cream commercial: 'a little dab will do ya!'.......

Later!

Stan

[JR]

Hey Guys,
Lots of people I know put extended heater hoses on their trucks and machines with quick couplers so they can drive right up to them and plug them into a hot engine and let it warm up while they sit in a warm vehicle.
JR

[DeereManiac]

That's a great tip JR