Hard Starting 350, etc.

[squarede]

Hello, I am new to this forum, and have enjoyed reading through all of the posts, and have learned a lot. Now I have a question...
I recently purchased a 1969 350 for use logging and in our sugarbush. Problem is this machine is a bear to start.
So far I have installed a aftermarket fuel filter since the orig was gone, a new air filter and have changed the oil from 20w-50 to 15w40 (plus 2 qts of marvel mystery oil).
I know that the PO was using ether on this, but I am not a big fan and want to stay away from it.
So, I would like to adjust the valves to help things out. I have the manual and am a fairly competent mechanic, but am unsure how to turn the motor to get to TDC. Every other machine I have has room for a wrench to be used on the balancer, but not this one.
So, I guess what I am looking for is starting advice down to about 10 degrees as well as advice on adjusting the valves.
Thanks,
Ray

[digitup]

Some of those little 350s could be a real pain to start I had one and everyone told me no way they are just great I cured mine by taking it to an auction [You didn't want to hear that did you ] but I always figured that 350s were not my machines any way .I bought several since and these little buggers are great to start .I still own the best one it is a 350D and it sat out in a farmers field for two months in a cold as hell winter and still started no problem no either just turn it over and it would go . The tractors with that three banger in it was the same and John Deere just ignored the guys that would not start good .My friends dad has one and he won't even try to start it in the winter.Rebuilding them makes them even worse .He tried that .Digitup.

[Lavoy]

I know our B model starts and runs much better since going through the pump and injectors, but it was never a bad starter to begin with. Of course we almost always have it near electricity, so we plug it in if we are going to use it in the cold.
I belive that there were also some cold start kits, or some sort of update for the earlier 350's at least, but I do not know what all that entails.
Lavoy

[squarede]

Thanks for the advice,
I'm planning on doing a rebuild and sending out the injector pump and injectors this summer, when I have more time.
For now, I'm thinking of putting in a Katz lower hose type heater, and adjusting the valves. Any advice on turning over the motor during this procedure?
Thanks again,
Ray

[Lavoy]

As for the lower hose heater, I think you will find it is ineffective. There are really not that many applications that a lower hose heater will work in at all, and less that will work very well. Most engines with a water pump do not respond well to a hose heater. My neighbor just had a guy put a lower hose heater on his 3020, utterly useless, I ended up putting a tank heater on it for him last week.
Lavoy

[squarede]

OK Lavoy, Thanks for the tip. It gets very cold here, so I want to do this right.
Would you please explain to me where the heater gets plumbed in?
It looks like there is a 1/2" NPT plug on the water pump housing, Would one end go in there, and the other in the block somewhere?
Thanks for your help,
Ray

[JR]

A few weeks ago another person had the same issue with starting.
I mentioned that loggers I knew put quick couplers on their trucks and machines and they just drove up to them, plug into their warm truck and sat in it until the machine was warmed up to start. Heaters work but if your on a different site without power you are out of luck.

JR

[Tigerhaze]

This is the earlier thread that JR is referring to:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ck+connect

[digitup]

We install a in block on the backhoes on our JCBs ,CAT and the DEEREs in the center frost plug between second and third cylinders .These units are only forty watt but do a more efficient job than 100 watt units plumbed into lower hose or circulation hose units they lose to much heat just getting the heat to the block .Our new JCB and both Deeres also two of the 550Js have the diesel fired heater unit in with a cell phone fire up I don't use this much on the Dozer's but I use the ones on the Backhoes all the time $2200 each is a bit much for an older unit install . After a cell call in an hour when you get there it is worm even at 35 below in the wind and butt crack no where the cab is started to defrost .Digitup.

[squarede]

Thanks for all the advice.
I used to have a similar heater hose set up to what you are describing on my old David Brown 990. It worked great. Problem is, I drive a F250 superduty and there are all kinds of bulletins regarding the cooling system on that model and I don't want to do anything that would jepordize my truck.

I was leaning toward a tank type unit if I could figure out where to plumb it in; however, a friend that is a diesel mechanic was just here, and he was trying to talk me into a fuel heater rather than a coolant heater. He said that he has installed them on lots of big rigs with great results. I never heard of such a thing so I'm not sure, but his advice is usually pretty sound.
Anyone have any experience with these?

[digitup]

That is what a diesel fired heater is ours are made by ESBAR I think it is the smallest coolant heater they make .If you go to your FORD dealer they should have a kit for liquid loop heat system .We have one on each of the two new 6.4 liter trucks for engine heating the drainage plows .Our local small Ford dealer installed them for around 200 bucks each .that is a cheap way to go to heat up an engine .Digitup.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I used to have a 350, which was kept in the barn when I lived in upstate NY. I'd be able to start it well enough down to 0 deg F or so. At that point, she'd try to start, but just puff the white smoke and only keep going with help from the starter.

It'd drive me out of the barn, the smoke that is, and that wasn't good for the starter motor, either. I hate starting fluid, so I devised another plan.

I'd use one of those portable LP 'jet engine' space heaters. I'd stick it right behind the blade frame crossmember and let the heat flow thru the nose and radiator. I'd go to the barn and manually fire it up, then head back to the house for a cuppa. You'd think that would be useless, but the heat would soak through the entire front of the machine and in 20 minutes she'd fire right off. Plus, as a bonus, the hydraulics worked a bit easier as well.

I got the idea from a very old tractor operator's manual, from the all steel days, that suggested lighting a fire under the tractor in the winter. I can't recall just what make or model the manual was for, but I always thought it was one of those crazy ideas that winds up actually working - as long as one does not burn the barn down in the process, that is!

Later!

Stan

[squarede]

Stan, Thanks for the advice. I've actually done that before with some older machines that I've had in the past. Works Great.
I think that I am going to go for a cannister type heater...Still looking for advice on how to plumb it.
There is a 1/2" pipe plug in the water jacket on the left of the engine, so I'm thinking of using that as well as the block drain to circulate heat. However, I'm still in fact finding mode.

[digitup]

Some times when you get excessive smoke at startup the injectors need re set and are dumping fuel just enough to create ring wash on the cylinder walls .Just get the injectors reset and adjured they may need new tips .Any good injection shop can do this job and it saves fuel and adds power .I was working with a 450D this fall that was smoking a lot at start while he was pushing dirt in the hole that I was making with the excavator 15 feet above him as he got close it was enough to put me out of the machine .We got injectors done and what a difference when it came near to me after that .It really smelt like raw fuel and was leaking black slobber down the exhaust manifold He got them set and noticed a lot more power and it started super also. I think it cost 25 bucks each to set the little John Deere Pencil injectors on the 450s or 350s real cheap for as nice as it ran after it was worth it . Digitup.

[Lavoy]

You are correct, use the block drain for the inlet to the bottom of the heater, and connect the outlet of the heater to a higher point on the engine. I think you will be shocked how well it works, regardless of temp.
Lavoy