backhoe attachment

[dale]

What's one worth in decent shape, no bucket? How can i tell which model it is?

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Dale-

I am by no means an expert on the backhoe attachments but will give you my $0.02 since I own one and have read up on some of the specs.

I guess I should first state as a given that you would need a "hoe" crawler because they were specially equipped with a heavy duty backhoe attachment bracket and the hydraulic system to handle a backhoe. Lavoy or others can give you more specifics.

These attachments could also be used on some JD wheel loaders and I'm not going to specifically mention the models only used on the wheel loaders- only those I know could be used on crawlers.

Someone may need to fill in some of the lineage I am presenting- it could be incomplete:

-Models 50 and 51
These were apparently for use on the 1010s and 2010s and possibly the 440ICDs as well. The spec sheet I have for them is during the early 1960s. The model 50 is a "center of tractor" model (pivots at the center of the bracket) while the 51 is a "slider" model (backhoe can be slid to left or right of tractor on the bracket to dig along walls, etc.). Both used the distinctive rotary vane swing cylinder to pivot the main boom- sort of looks like a big donut.

-Models 93 and 95
These are similar to Models 50 and 51 respectively except they were made later in the 1960s and were made for 350/450 series crawlers. Pretty similar specs and they also had the rotary vane swing cylinder.

-Models 9300
This is similar to Model 93 except they were made in the 80s for the 350/450/550 and 355/455/555 series dozers and loaders.

Model 9300G
-This backhoe attachment was for the 450G/550G/650G series dozers and 455G/555G series crawler loaders. They are "center of tractor" but used the tandem double-action cylinders for boom swing instead of the rotary vane swing cylinders. The spec sheets I have show them made in the late 80s.

Model 9550
-Similar to the 9300G except this backhoe attachment was for the 350 series crawler loaders and dozers and the 450/550 series dozers.

As to worth, I would think it would depend highly on the age, model, and the condition. I own the Model 50, and have heard that parts for the rotary swing cylinder are obselete. Supposedly there was a conversion kit for the rotary swing cylinder to the tandem cylinders but haven't heard about the status of it today. Cracks or welds on the main boom would also probably affect value significantly

Costs I have seen on EPay range from five hundred for Model 50s in poor condition on up into the several thousands depending on age, model and condition.

[dale]

The 350B that we got last weekend does have the mounts and stiffeners for a hoe. It has a 4n1 so, I need a diverter valve and hoses though. Ok, so I'm looking at either a 50 or 94 (rotary swing, no slide). Is there a model/serial number plate somewhere? No welds, pins and bushings all seem pretty tight, exposed rods are still nice and shiny. The guy who currently owns it said 1200 would buy it.

What are the "specs" for these hoes?

Thanks,
Dale

[digitup2]

If you have the hoe mounts you should also have the big hydraulic pump but remember the 350 is smaller than the 450 and it is hard on a little 350 to run the fullsize hoe around on the back sprockets .Track life and drivetrain punishment are a certain killer to a combination like that .It is super hard on the clutch also .And the pump on those little 350s is slow as hell so be patient they were not near the machine as a450 with a hoe .If you realy want one install it for backhoeing only take it off for loader work as the 350s with that extra weight and traction would tear the bellhousing bolts out of the frame very quickly direction reversing .The 450s were bad enough for this little problem .Digitup.

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Dale-

I posted the link for specs on these hoes under the "Web Links" forum. I did have a mistake in my list- the 94 was apparently for wheel tractors only so I meant the 93 (that's what I get for doing during my lunch break). The reference for the 95 (as a slider) is correct. I have since fixed my reference above for the 93. Here are the two sheets for the 50 and 93:

50

http://www.murphyused.com/images/specs/359.pdf

93

http://www.murphyused.com/images/specs/357.pdf

I would second what Digitup said about detaching the backhoe for loader work; not only is it very heavy on the rear when going over rough ground but I also found that I was always either dragging the bottom of the boom (where the hydraulic hoses are) into the ground or having the stabilizers catch the ground (I have one that leaks down). I am missing the plate that protects the hoses on the bottom- you may want to see if the hoe you are looking at has the plate or not. The downside is doing loader work you will not have a counterweight so you'll have to be really careful about how you manuver with a loaded bucket. I am looking at putting detachable counterweights on my 2010 when i am not doing backhoe work.

I forget exactly where the serial number plate is on the backhoes- I thought it is on the boom but I'll have to look to be sure.

If you decide to buy and transport, be aware (at least on the 50) that there is a transportation pin that is supposed to be in place to hold the swing cylinder in place. Apparently it will put a lot of stress on the cylinder if transported without. I didn't know about that when I bought mine- it doesn't seem worse for wear but I would have liked to known at the time. The parts/operator's manual is invaluable- I couldn't find it through Deere but was lucky enough to get one on Ebay (don't see them much on there). If you need specific questions answered, I will try to do my best.

Since we are on the subject, I have a question for Digitup or whoever else can speak to it. Is anyone aware of whether the boom swing cylinder conversion (rotary swivel cylinder to tandem straight cylinders) is still available?

[dale]

Thanks. Just what I needed. The one I'm looking at has to be a model 93. Went back to look and kick the dirt some more and found out he has 2 buckets that fit the hoe, a 12 and 24. He forgot where he put them! The 12 is in very good shape, the 24 had the linkages attached (thankfully) but will need some attention.


BTW, manuals are here
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index. ... nuModel=93

[Tigerhaze]

Thanks-

I looked at the link and didn't see the Model 50 backhoe manuals; I since found on Ebay. They do have the Model 93, and it may be worth getting to see if any parts interchange between the two.

It probably goes without saying, but check the typical backhoe stuff like hydraulic hoses, valve operation, and especially bucket pins and bushings for slop. Do to some wear in my bushings, I already broke one bucket pin and it was almost $100 from Deere.

[dale]

I must have something different. The model 50 BH attachment parts manual is PC619, the service manual is SM2031. Maybe I gave you a bad link. Try this http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index. ... nuModel=50


Couple of hoses will probably need to replaced. All the pins and bushings look tight, the cover panel is misssing on the valve body and it needs a new seat pan. But, I'm trying to hold out for 1000 bucks even. I'm catching a little flak about how much my "hobbies" cost


Just in case, your 2010 manuals should be here
http://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index. ... Model=2010

[Tigerhaze]

Sorry, I guess it was there and didn't see it. In any case, I have the manual already if you have any questions or need part numbers.

I wouldn't hedge on price too much if it is in good shape and it's close to you. They aren't worth shelling out a small fortune for them but they aren't all that common, especially in good shape. The key is the rotary boom swivel; if it is having problems then I would pass on it since parts for it are obselete.

If you have to go out of your area to find a decent one in the future, you'll have to figure in the cost of transporting it back in your purchase price.

Unfortunately this hobby isn't very cheap.

[dale]

Lastest update... the hoe I was looking at never materialized. The guy sat firm on his price and still has it. Yesterday, I got a phone call from a buddy asking if I still wanted one. Sure, if it's a decent deal......The phone call led me to an older gent less than 3 miles from my place. He showed me a model 93 attachment, which he hasn't used since he put up his garage 8 yrs. ago. Said it had one bad hose and some missing paint. Said he thought he had a hose we could put on. Said he'd be back in a couple minutes. When he returned with a hose and his 450, we hooked it up and it works very well. He asked if I'd give him $250.00 dollars for it Yep, the wife said his junk has gotta go and that "thing" was an eyesore. Some days, you just get really lucky.

[digitup2]

Yep get it while the getin is good[ Cheep at twice the price ].I am just wondering what I would do if the old girl said get rid of it all ?.I would have to make up a sign saying old nag for free .If you are doing any large amount of digging a rubber tired backhoe will out dig those old 350's 10 times over but for a hoe of your own and no rush they are great .That hoe will sit extreemly heavy on the back of the little 350 though.Also that combination is real top heavy so watch it . Digitup.

[jdemaris]

. He asked if I'd give him $250.00 dollars for it Yep, the wife said his junk has gotta go and that "thing" was an eyesore. Some days, you just get really lucky.

$250 is a pretty good deal. I find Deere hoes often that will fit the standard Deere hoe-mounts for $500 - $750. I also see plenty with asking prices of over $2000.

I know where there are half-a-dozen Deere 93 and 9250 hoes right now that can be had for $700 or less.

One thing you want to watch for is the Deere hoes with that awful barrel swing cylinder. It is low on swing power, and a chronic leaker. At one time, mid-80s, Deere was selling change-over kits to eliminate the barrel and install dual, conventional cylinders instead. As I recall, Deere had stopped selling major repair parts for those barrels.

Deere has hoes sized for 1010s and 350 crawlers that have - a barrel swing, or dual conventional swing cylinders, and even one with a single conventional swing cylinder that is double-acting - the 9250. I have two 9250s and I think they are the nicest hoes Deere ever made in that size class.

Deere has a standard quick-attach tool-bar mount that is found on 1010s, 2010s, 350s, and 450s. It fits rear rippers, backhoes, etc. In case you find a four-pin mount Deere hoe, and want to be sure it fits the 1010, 2010, 350, 450 standard mounts - here are the measurements:

Rear toolbar hitch: measures 17 1/8” center to center from top to bottom of 1” pins. Width is 27” center to center with a 1” slot.

[jdemaris]

Hi Dale-
. . . have heard that parts for the rotary swing cylinder are obselete. Supposedly there was a conversion kit for the rotary swing cylinder to the tandem cylinders but haven't heard about the status of it today.

The changeover kit was indeed offered by Deere, and I installed many. It was a big job with a lot of cutting and welding. The kit never showed up as a conventional Deere part #. At the time, mid-1980s - there was a line of parts from Deere that were listed separate as "bulk" or "kit" or "packaged goods" items. ROPS, limb riser kits, etc. came through the same channels. At the time, I was a mechanic and not a parts-counter man - so I can't tell you the fine details. Our dealership was in central New York state - and our kits came from Deere in Syracuse, NY. Anytime we had a question or problem - we just called them up and usually got a quick answer. It doesn't seem to be that easy, anymore.

But - I can attest those kits absolutely did exist and I hated installing them. I can also attest that we had many problems with the barrel swing cylinders.

[Lavoy]

John,
What you might be referring to is a "whole goods bundle". These are or can be a complete conversion setup for any number of things. As one example, there was a whole goods bundle available to conver the older feeder houses of some combines to something the newer ones had. Whole goods bundles were ordered through the sales department, not parts or service. Doesn't have to be the case here, but is one possibility why you never saw one in a parts book. The conversion could have also been part of a PIP, and if so, there should have been a service bulletin detailing the update and the necessary parts of kit number to do so.
Lavoy

[jdemaris]

Since we're discussing backhoes here - I figured I'd mention this. I've got a nice backhoe and mount setup for a Deere 350 Dozer with outside blade. Yeah, sounds a bit wierd.

I came across it while still on the guy's 350 dozer. The rear toolbar mount looked to be original Deere. But, he had an Allis Chalmers Mark V backhoe on it. At the time, I figured that AC just happened to use the same mouting profile.

I found out later that this guy had the entire mount setup professoinal made at a machine shop - to fit the Deere 350 dozer to the AC hoe. He took the hoe off to install a winch. Some parts of the story don't make sense to me. He told me the machine shop got specs from Deere company and followed those specs to make the mounts. Seems that can't be because they don't fit a Deere hoe, just the AC hoe. What ever the case may be, they did a really nice job - it looks factory made. Now, maybe Deere had an alternate mount that I've never seen?

So, I have a nice little Allis hoe, and complete mount setup that fits a Deere 350 outside blade dozer. I can't use all the parts. I had been hoping this AC hoe would fit my 1010 Deere crawler-loader that already has a Deere rear toolbar. It won't -not without some cutting and welding.

So, I might sell the whole deal if I find something else to suit my needs that is direct fit. It's odd, but a nice setup if you just happen to have a 350 outside blade. And, maybe it fits dozers with inside blades too - I really don't know without further investigation.

I'm in central New York not too far from Albany, Cooperstown, the Adirondacks, etc.

The Allis Chalmers hoe is basically, a Henry hoe. Allis Chalmers Mark IV or V - Hitch mount measures - with 1 1/2” pins -
20” top to bottom, center to center. Width is 21” center to center with a 1” slot.

Deere toolbar/backhoe mount on 1010 and 350 crawlers - Rear toolbar hitch: measures 17 1/8” center to center from top to bottom of 1” pins. Width is 27” center to center with a 1” slot.