Either ????

[Bruski]

I was reading on one of the other posts about the evils of either. I recently purchased the 350 that I am working on and the guy I bought it from (not running ) said that he had moved it around his yard just running it on either. I have since got it running on diesel and it seems to run well other that a bit of blue smoke. Is there anyway of telling without a tear down if the either did any real damage?
Thanks, Bruce

[wwattson]

I would think that if the ether had done it in, it'd be pretty much toast. As to a damage assessment, I'd warm it up and do a normal compression test. If the compression tests low, run the engine and check for ring blow-by at the oil fill tube. If it doesn't seem to be blowing by, pretty much got to be the valves.

I guess my advice, which admittedly isn't worth much, would be to run it if it's running well and monitor it for oil consumption and other wear related problems. If you do decide to tear it down, just plan on doing it all the way if you're going to keep the crawler.

[mini kahuna]

ether and diesels is a nasty thing,to run it on ether is BAD news,maybe cracked or broke a ring etc.etc.
had a guy two weeks ago try to start a chevy s-10 on ether,thing miss fired and exploded the plastic intake off the engine....guess next time he'll push it into the shop instead of trying to tease it to run.
I'm with watson,if it has good oil pressure and no funny noises run it for awhile and keep a close eye in things.
if the oil burning isn't too bad maybe you want to use it like it is,if not your looking at a complete rebuild to make it right.

[srs_mn]

It's possible that very little damage was done running on the starting fluid;
I'm not saying that running on "ether" is a good thing, but I'm convinced that most of the starting fluid that is sold nowadays is pretty tame stuff compared to what it used to be. I think most of it is half kerosene or something mixed with propane for a propellant... maybe a small percentage of ether to give it a distinctive smell.
I'm pretty sure if you drove a crawler around the yard on the OLD ether from 30 years ago it would be scrap metal in short order.
srs_mn

[hunter41mag]

Ether will ignite from compression much sooner (maybe 20-30 deg BTDC) than diesel fuel. This causes higher cylinder pressure since the piston is still moving upward and is trying to compress the expansion of the ether after igniting.

Older diesel engines (before early 80's) usually have big heavy pistons with rings that are not near the top of the piston, Starting in the early 80's allot of diesel engine manufacturers made the pistons lighter and moved the rings closer to the top of the pistons to help clean up emissions. Due to this design change causes these engine pistons to be more prone to damage from ether.

Then in the early 90's most diesel engine manufactures went to an all steel piston or a steel piston crown with aluminum skirt. These pistons are very forgiving but still can break piston rings from too much cylinder pressure from ether.

I hope this information helps.

[BROKE AGAIN]

i agree with the other guys. the starting fluid seems to have taken a downswing lately.
i always figured a little sqirt IF it needs it. starters ain't cheap neither. but the stuff sure don't seem to have the bang it used to.
i ended up using a can and a 1/2 to seat one truck tire. never did go. would jsut flame instead. ended up taking it to the station. thought maybe i lost my touch but talked to some of the other loggers and they said the same thing.

as for moving the machine around the yard on it........ seems like a permanent solution to a short term problem

[digitup2]

When either ignites so early is why it makes an engine sound like it is going to explode.The piston actualy has to over center through this explosion .I also have notuced that they don't make either like they used to.If i get a weekend off mabt 3or 4 times a year I take my modified class stock car to the local track .Years ago I either mounted a tire and now when I get there they all want me to mount tires for them .some of the newre stuff has verry little actual either in it and you can not get enough ignition to mount a tire with out the right stuff.And it will still get a diesel to knock over and start all right ,But the last ten years or so it has goten to be mild stuff.At one time that stuff would eat the rubber air tubes out from inside to out and the clear breather bowl would fog up for life if you gave it some either up top so the etuff has got to be a lot less potent then years ago.Digitup.

[spud]

When either ignites so early is why it makes an engine sound like it is going to explode.The piston actualy has to over center through this explosion .I also have notuced that they don't make either like they used to.If i get a weekend off mabt 3or 4 times a year I take my modified class stock car to the local track .Years ago I either mounted a tire and now when I get there they all want me to mount tires for them .some of the newre stuff has verry little actual either in it and you can not get enough ignition to mount a tire with out the right stuff.And it will still get a diesel to knock over and start all right ,But the last ten years or so it has goten to be mild stuff.At one time that stuff would eat the rubber air tubes out from inside to out and the clear breather bowl would fog up for life if you gave it some either up top so the etuff has got to be a lot less potent then years ago.Digitup.

[CELSESSER]

Spud,

If you have a tire that the bead isn't seated, the fun way to seat it is to spray a some (Not TOO Much!) ether into the tire through the area between the rim and tire, quickly step back and toss a lit match into the spot where you shot the ether and BAM the tire is seated if you used enough ether. Have air ready because the fire in the tire will try to suck the tire back off the bead. Go to youtube and type in "seating a tire" or something similar.

Chuck

[jdemaris]

Is there anyway of telling without a tear down if the either did any real damage?
Thanks, Bruce

350s break top rings and piston-lands pretty easy when too much ether is used. When the tops break, the engine will start terrible -but often will still run fine once good and hot. Easiest check is to just pull the head. Then you can look down at the piston tops and easiy see if the top rings are in one piece.

If you machine still starts well, then don't worry about it.