Intro and JD 450C questions

[cpederslie]

Well, my JD 450C track loader with 4n1 brought me to this board. I've done some digging around looking for a solution or guidance to the problem I'm experiencing. I've got bits and pieces from various posts and figured I'd just lay it all out on the table and see what everyone comes up with.

First, I've had the machine for over a year. Due to time I haven't run it much until recently. As of a couple months ago I would run it for an hour or so and it would begin to lose power and stall. I figured there was junk in the fuel filter or water so I changed the filter, drained the sediment bowl which was clean diesel. Fired it up ran it for an hour or so and same thing. Did a once over checking all fluids and discovered that there was fuel getting into the crankcase. Pulled the fuel pump to inspect and it seems to be working fine, can't really tell though if there is fuel leaking past it into the crankcase.

I immediately changed the oil and filter and have only run it enough to move it from where it last stalled. And now the troubleshooting process.

I was going to start with the screens other people mention at the injector pump and tank, however, this wouldn't explain the fuel in the oil. Could it be the fuel pump (primer pump) or is it more likely the injector pump? How can I troubleshoot either of these further to be certain before I start throwing dollar bills at it?

Your help is greatly appreciated!!!!!

BTW - I love this machine! What a way to wind down from a work day!!!!

[jdemaris]

I would run it for an hour or so and it would begin to lose power and stall.

It's a common problem with all engines with D series Stanadyne injection pumps - including many pickup trucks made before 1985. Your pump should be a Stanadyne-Roosamaster JDB435AL2442 or JDB435MD2802.

Just pull the little timing window off the side of the pump for inpsection. When you do that, the pump housing will drain out and some fuel wiil spill.
Most likely, you find that recess behind the cover full of little specs that look like mouse-turds. Those are the remnants of the plastic governor weight retainer ring. They all come apart - with use or time. Those specs plug the little fittiNg on top of the pump (return fuel fitting and pressure regulator). When that plugs, the machine will start, run, thEn slowly lose power and die. Give it a few moments, and it will start right up again.
Fuel in the crankcase is usually from the umbrella shaft seals inside the injection pump.

I used to fix many 350 and 450 like your's - out on the road, deep in the woods, etc. For someone that knows what they're doing, your pump can be pulled off, taken all apart, fixed, and put back on in 4-5 hours. Total parts cost is usually under $75.

That being said, if you pull the pump and send it to a pump shop - it's going to cost you over $300 - even if all it needs is a $18 seal kit.
If you have a dealer pull the pump for you, and they send it off - it can easily cost you over $1000.

Some guys take the fitting from the top of the pump, and clean it and punch out the check-valve. By doing this, the machine will often run good for awhile - sometimes months - but you can destroy the pump this way - beyond repair.

You can also take the cover off the top of the pump for a better look for debris - via the three bolt - but it's not necessary. When you fix the pump - it goes like this. A complete seal kit with a new plastic governor ring and new shaft seals is $18. If the front of the pump needs a new bronze bushing (where the seals ride) it costs $8. Now, with the plastic weight retainer ring - for an extra $35-$40 you can totally eliminate it and update to the newer EID assembly. All GM and Ford pickup trucks used it after 1985. It retrofits to all the older D, DB, an JDB pumps.

Keep also in mind, a leaking $35 fuel transfer pump can also leak diesel into the crankcase, but that's rare. And, the little fuel valve at the bottom of the fuel tank has a very small opening and it can often plug - and act like it's an injection pump problem.

If you take your fitting out from the top of the pump for inspection - it is two piece. The upper part has the flare that attaches to the return-fuel line. The lower part is a combination check-vavle and housing-pressure-regulator. It has a little spring and plastic ball inside of it - and this is what plugs.

[cpederslie]

Great thanks for the info. I don't suppose you'd have part numbers for the injection parts? I haven't dug into the Manuals yet to see if they are listed, I am assuming they are.

Thanks,

[jdemaris]

Great thanks for the info. I don't suppose you'd have part numbers for the injection parts? I haven't dug into the Manuals yet to see if they are listed, I am assuming they are.

Thanks,

Part numbers from who or whom? Deere used to sell all the injection pump parts and had Deere part #s for them all - but no more. Any parts now must come from either the OEM company or aftermarket.

In this case, we're talking about a Stanadyne (Roosmaster) pump - formerly the Hartridge Tool Company in Connecticutt and also Moen water faucets. Stanadyne parts come only from authorized Stanadyne dealers. Several companies make aftermarket parts - and with most - they are every bit as good. I tend to use Spaco parts made in Italy.

JDB injection pump compete seal kit is Stanadyne # 24371 or Spaco U24371 Cost six months ago was $12.10 for the Spaco, but haven't checked lately. Stanadyne is probably $22.

JDB pilot tube (bushing) - Stanadyne # 16320 - Spaco U16320 $4.83
from Spaco, around $16 from Stanadyne.

In regard to Deere service manuals - Deere never put the pump information in tractor manuals like Ford and AC did. Deere published all the repair info in a separate manual - SM-2045. It is available in re-print for $25 from several tractor websites, or original printing from Deere for over $60 last I checked. Deere has a complete series of injection pump manuals - but SM-2045 is the one you want. Gives detailed specs and repair data for all Roosamaster pumps on Deeres DB, JDB, DC, C, and CB. Also Bosch and Scintilla pumps used on older 2 cylinder diesels, and Waterloo, AMBAC, Robert Bosch, and Stanadyne injectors.