450C tranny problem

[jbrown]

I am looking to buy in the New York State area a 450C size machine.If any one knows of one I will flip them a C note. If I buy it.I am looking in the 8 to $12000 area.The latter is what they are going for a working model. I will take one that needs some work. Does any one here know of a JD 450 transmission problem?.I knew the early 550's had problems.I was on the Yesterday tractors site,there it was said 450 had major problems.Mostly moving when they were in neatrul .I been looking at all the equipment for sale sites, plusEbay,Craigs list, Local papers ,have not seen one that had tranny problems.But in my search I seen about 6 Cat D3's with tranny problems and in scrape yards seen D3's with out trannys.I seen some 550's with tranny problems.But the local dealer warned me to stay away from them uptill G model. I found out that a dozer thats in good shape goes quick .Any one know of a Good dozer mechcanic in the Tioga county NY area, I could hire to check out a machine for me?

[RANDY Fay]

The moving problem while in N was a problem--It was corrected by deere as a mandatory recall on all machines in the field and problem resolved--If you now of a machine that is doing this contact deere--I'm sure they will take care of it--I don't know how anyone would still have a machine with this problem unless someone put the fuse sized fiter back in after it was removed by deere which would make it there problem and a very deadly one have fun Randy

I'm in tioga co. pa I'd help ya look for a mechanic have fun Randy

[jdemaris]

I am looking to buy in the New York State area a 450C size machine.If any one knows of one I will flip them a C note. If I buy it.I am looking in the 8 to $12000 area.The latter is what they are going for a working model. I will take one that needs some work. Does any one here know of a JD 450 transmission problem?.I knew the early 550's had problems.I was on the Yesterday tractors site,there it was said 450 had major problems.Mostly moving when they were in neatrul ?

The "recall" by Deere was supposed to be done on every crawler made with an HL-R. That including 2010s, and 450s up to the middle of the C series. Later Cs came from the factory with the newer parts. Not all machines were updated - it only happened when owners were found and willing to have their machines worked on. I still come across them often that were never done. The update was based on two changes. #1 - a neutral-slot was ground or sawed into the four-speed-gear transmission shift-quadrant. #2 - a shift valve was installed for the HL-R wth a wider neutral slot. I did countless numbers of those updates - and it was a bit rediculous. The older unmodified machines were fine if you had brains enough to put the parking-brake on when leaving it unattended and running.

If you're looking for a used 450C (Deere sells 450Cs new through the Relife Program) - the trans is still the #1 thing to check. When the HL-R starts going bad, if often doesn't show up until good and hot. Sometimes you have to push dirt for half an hour before it starts to show.
The other thing to check - also when hot - if it can hold engine oil pressure at low RPMs. 450s are known for losing it due to loose balancing shafts. They are often skipped when inframe motor-jobs are done - so often the result is - a machine with new rod and main bearings, new pistons and sleeves - but loose shafts and no hot oil pressure.

I'm in central New York (Albany-Cooperstown-Oneonta area) and come across 450Cs often - usually $10 - 14,000 if they are dozers with inside 6 way blades. If I was looking for one with serious use in mind - I'd look in New Jersey instead of NY. Crawlers e.g. 350s and 450s tend to be in much better condition from NJ because the soil is all sand and clay. In my area - the hard-pan and shale tear the crawlers to pieces. So do the loggers. That being said, 450Cs hold up much better to abuse than 350Cs do.

[Tractor 850]

Here in NW New Jersey we have nothing but hard pan, shale & limestone hills.
Not the best for equipment, especially if used by loggers or quarries.
South Jersey, where I grew up, has nothing but flat sandy soil as far as you can see.
Sand is easier when you hit it but it gets into everything.
Those of you who have been to the beach know what I mean.
The moral is where ever the machine comes from, check it out carefully.
If you are not sure of your own knowledge, you could probably find a local equipment mechanic who could look with you, for a few bucks under the table.

[jdemaris]

Here in NW New Jersey we have nothing but hard pan, shale & limestone hills.
Not the best for equipment, especially if used by loggers or quarries.
South Jersey, where I grew up, has nothing but flat sandy soil as far as you can see.
Sand is easier when you hit it but it gets into everything.
.

I can't say I know much about NW New Jersey except that I used to hunt deer there 40 years ago. The first Deere dealer I ever worked for was Imperial Tractor Co. on Route 17 in Ramsey, NJ - just below the NJ/NY border. That's NE New Jersey - and crawlers from that area held up much better than anywhere else I've been. Broken side-frames, steering-clutch housings, etc. were almost unheard of. Soils was mosly red-sandy-clay. Next two Dealerships were further north - Newburgh, NY, then Oneonta, NY - where all is hard pan and hills and small crawlers get busted to pieces. My boss often bought used crawlers from northern and central NJ - just because of the better condition - trucked them back up north and sold them. Difference was usually night-and-day as compared to local machines. Often still is.

But, yeah - you've got to check any machine - especially when it might be 40 years old. Even in my area, farm crawlers often in very good shape since they don't get abused or used as much or as hard as loggers, quarriers, and contractors do.

[jbrown]

I want to look at a 450c for $8500.It shows 3500 hrs.Its got worn track.The rollars seem to be ok.I am just worrried about the trany.Have not drove it yet.When it started it did not smoke at all.He just moved the blade and when back and forth.If it still there monday I will drive it.One thing, most of serial number on plate is worn off except the first 5 didgets it reads 450cJ instead of 450cc or 450cl.I when to 5 Star, and they looked it up and j says it came out of factory with no blade just drawbar.Plus it has PTO and no ROPs.It has a six way blade on it and it looks like normal JD blade.What would you use a dozer with no blade for?Why do you think the ROPs are missing?was that required back then?The place that has it is a paint it and make it move and sellit setup.If the tranny goes bad on these any idea what rebuilding cost.?I can fix or replace track and rollers.I did the steering clutch plates on my 1010c.I can not redo one of those HL transmissions.

[jbrown]

I found a dozer buyer who happen to live down the raod from me.He agreed to look at the $8500 machine.The tracks were at 30% ,rollers 50%, blade was real loose,some one had welded the cutting edge to the blade so you could not very easy put new one on.The engine was strong and no blowby.But the reverser had problem with high range..in lowrange it would shift ok but when you went from low to high it would not work.If you put it in reverse then to high rangs it would work.but it would not work going from low to high.He said the brakes did not seem to work well.The steering clutches seemed good. If it was just track and rollers would of bought it.He did not know why the reverser did not work right.I don't want to start with a machine with reverser problems.Any one know if this could be just a adjustment.

[jdemaris]

I found a dozer buyer who happen to live down the raod from me.He agreed to look at the $8500 machine.

.I don't want to start with a machine with reverser problems.Any one know if this could be just a adjustment.

Fixing it with an adjustment is doubtful. It's likely the owner already tried it and if not - he's being pretty foolish considering the asking price.
Sluggish and hungp-up shifts like that usually occur from a lot of general wear and internal leakage - in the manifold, clutch packs, etc.

From what you describe - that should be a $4500 machine, not $8500.
If it was brought to a dealer, the undercarriage work could easily cost $5000, and an HL-L rebuild another $5000.

[jbrown]

Thanks for the input.I belive your right ,the owner is a equpment dealer.So your right about if it was an adjustment, he would of done it.He has an auction at end of month so he probley figures it won't get noticed .The buy said the same thing about bottem end.Is it about 5 grand to rebuild a reverser?I will know what else to look for on next one.

[jdemaris]

Thanks for the input.I belive your right ,the owner is a equpment dealer.So your right about if it was an adjustment, he would of done it.He has an auction at end of month so he probley figures it won't get noticed .The buy said the same thing about bottem end.Is it about 5 grand to rebuild a reverser?I will know what else to look for on next one.

Having an HL-R done a Deere dealer could easily be $5000, and often more. 450s are famous for going on the auction-block when they still work cold but slip hot.

How come your search is limited to a C series? Good machines, yes, but so are the older dry-clutch machines. I'd take a 450B turbo over a C anytime - but I happen to prefer the dry clutches.

[jbrown]

I probley perfer a case 450 model,but I never see any in my area.I heard their steering is better with the reversing track.If I get steering clutches I rather have the wet .I have a 1010 with dry and they are allways geting rustcoating on the steel plates.If it was a 450a or B I would just keep it and deal with the dry.But we want to dig ponds and clear, and its all hardpan and clay where we are.The 1010 is too light and we like a heaver machine.The 450B's around are not much cheaper than the C.What do you think of the D31 Komatsu's or the Dressers?