Roller plugs 450C

[Hartlyboy]

I'm finding more and more information about my new toy from the service and operator manuals that conflicts with what the previous owner told me. The latest is that the plugs in the center of the bottom rollers should be removed and a zerk fitting put in to shoot grease into the roller. Since I find the rollers are supposed to have 30 Wt oil, I'm glad he wasn't able to get more than one or two plugs out, though the idler plug and the top roller have been 'converted' to grease fittings with a zerk fitting.

I'm going to first try to check and add lube to the bottom rollers and need to figure out how to get the little plugs out of each roller -the center plug and the oil level plug. I'll use a spot sand blaster to clean up the head and area around it and use penetrating oil, but this is obviously no place for heat. How do you mechanics get those plugs out? Am I looking at a lot of drilling and tapping? When I replace the rollers the new ones will probaly come sealed, but I'd like to try to get the ones on there now lubbed up for the summer and fall before putting it in the shop over winter for some undercarraige work. Any tricks or ideas appreciated. Hoping someone knows a neat trick like the 'heat and quench' routine that I got on this site.

[digitup2]

They do come lubed but as I mentioned earlyer even my new 450J-550Js and latest 650J all have leaking seals in rollers so we just put in a button fitting and greese regularly even before they are come off warranty .The 650J has less than 300 hours on it and we installed a fitting so we know it is getting lubed .When I purchaced the 450J new I put a photo of it in show and tell with the right front roller weeping like crazy and my dealer sent out a new roller I never bothered instaling it just give it greese every week .Now since then it has nearly wore out that set of tracks at 3300 hours plus on the hourmeter at this time and tracks at 40% I will put the roller on with the next set of undercarrage no problem if it leaks I will put a fitting on it as well .pump out the oil lube and get over it while running the old Deere good greese is better than low oil any day .My best operater has all greese fittings on the one 550J [and the other two have several button fittings on them] that is the way he likes them he says he knows that they are lubed !.And he is taking his third new machine in a row past 5000 hours on a set of U/C .Not many can beat that but he is perticular and customers sware by him I guess that is what counts no shame in greese in lubed rollers just keep em rollin .Digitup.

[jdemaris]

Since I find the rollers are supposed to have 30 Wt oil

Where did you find info for 30W oil in 450C rollers? We sold the C-series new when it first came out. First series to use sealed "lifetime" rollers, wet steering clutches, etc. Deere told us to use only Hy-Gard oil in the rollers - and NOT motor oil.

Old grease-style rollers were different and were often filled with 30W motor oil, 90W gear oil, track & roller grease, cornhead grease, etc.

If your machine has OEM sealed rollers - they are meant to be filled with Hy-Gard or any other combination transmission & hydraulic oil. If your's leak - and the metal is still good - you can either fix them (reseal) or - convert to grease-fittings and use track grease.

[Hartlyboy]

Lots of good info from you all, as usual.

First, the reference to using 30Wt oil came from the owners manual [page 47] and the service manual. The specific material they refer to is TorQ Gard Supreme 30 wt oil "or equivalent" . Take out the center plug and fill level plug, inject oil until it comes out the top hole , put plugs back in.

Had to get the 22 plugs out first before I could try any of that stuff, though. Using the spot sand blaster on the plugs clearing off the old paint and and cleaning out the hole worked well. A shot of Kroil and a 3/8 drive hex head on a low pressure buttefly impact wrench got them all out. Had to use a #5 metric hex on a couple that were badly corroded but they all came out.

It was apparent that sometime in the past grease had been put into the roller body of all of them and some still had enough oil mixed in leak out. Couldn't really force oil in without a different rig than I had, so at this point I have access but need to go the next step to get more grease in there to know there is some lubrication. I take it when you talk about 'track grease' you mean something more fluid than the stuff you pump into ball joints and tie rod ends? I have a gooey grease I use in my old Cat with the button fittings. It is what we used to call corn head grease and seems to have more ability to get into bearing races than the stiffer grease you typically find in grease guns.

My next step then will be to load up a grease gun with corn head grease, put a zerk fitting on the center plug hole , take off the upper level plug and see if I can get some goo to run out of that top hole. If that sounds like something I shouldn't do, I'd appreciate a shout back. It'll take me a couple days to bring up the other grease from the other farm and find a gun that will pump it so I'll keep an eye on this forum to see if you have other advice for me. Thanks again for your sharing your experience.

[digitup2]

We just use button fittings they will take the dirt better than a Zerk fitting with the little ball exposed they don't do well with a track cleaning shovel of even a rock hitting it. Any Napa store has them or can order them and the fitting for the gun as well .Keep that gun for the rollers only and keep heavy greese such as the corn head variety mentioned . Dont get two picky if the seal leeks then just use greese and keep going .Oil will be out faster than before the seals never get better and if ran dry are probably in rough shape . Digitup .

[jdemaris]

Lots of good info from you all, as usual.

First, the reference to using 30Wt oil came from the owners manual [page 47]

I've probably never looked at an original 450C owner's manual. Working at a Deere dealership - we used factory shop manuals and Deere service bulletins. Shortly after the C-series came out - Deere told us to use Hy Gard only in the rollers. Also told us that crawlers used in extreme cold temps should get winter-grade Hy Gard. It wasn't an issue with us. We do get temps down to 30 below 0 F - but not many people actually work in those temps - and many can't even get the machines started. So, we never worried about it. We did have problems with hydraulic systems since regular-grade Hy Gard is too thick in very cold temps. A 1010, 2010, 350 450, etc. will constantly pop the bypass when started cold with normal Hy Gard in the hydraulic tank until it blows the filter off. Many Deere crawlers are run with the filter blown off and laying at the bottom of the hydraulic tank - and the owners/uses are unaware.

Torq Gard 30W isn't all that different anyway. Normal-grade Hy Gard is 20 W - and both oils have plenty of wear additives.

Oil is always best for roller lube - especially in cold temps - but only if it will stay in the roller. Even a slight leak can cause big problems - especially for a crawler that spends a lot of time parked and not getting used daily. I know with my crawlers the last thing I'm going to do is check all the rollers before using. If I see any stains on the ground by any rollers, I start using grease.

[Hartlyboy]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get to NAPA tomorrow and see if they have any of the button fittings. It would be great if they would work with the head on the grease gun I use for the old Cat buttons. I see some drippings around the rollers where I tried to put in some oil a couple days ago so it's gooey grease for those babies until they get changed out.

[Hartlyboy]

OK, let me finish up this saga and get on to new subjects... Found the button head grease fittings in NAPA ['Giant button heads with 3/8 pipe thread] as digitup2 suggested. Put on 12 of em -all the rollers and the idlers. Filled the bucket greaser with the 00 grease and proceded to try to give all a little [lot] of grease. Found some wouldn't take any and went to each fitting and made sure the intake button would push down on the new fittings. Some had to be tapped loose with a thin nail punch. Maybe varnish from the finishing operation? Anyway, with them freed up and my son holding the head on sqaure to the fitting , they all finally accepted some grease. Don't know if it means anything good at this stage but at least I feel I did the right thing by the old girl.
Went to replace the grease fitting on the top rollers and got a surprise. Liquid grease came out of there under some pressure. Shot out into the shop about a yard and made a mess. Guess those seals were holding OK and the addition of grease by the previous owner using a hp grease gun built up pressure. Saw the same thing in a couple of the roller fitting change outs , too. I put in new grease with the top plug out to try to minimize any surprises the next time I pull plugs.

Cleaned it up and put it on my trailer and got ready to take it down to the other farm and darned if I didn't run it under a tree and broke off the thin and rusted exhaust stack. No other damage but now I have to come up with another exhaust extender before I can take it down in front of the other neighbors . Except for her short exhaust , she looks good up on the trailer.

[jdemaris]

. . . got ready to take it down to the other farm and darned if I didn't run it under a tree and broke off the thin and rusted exhaust stack. No other damage but now I have to come up with another exhaust .

I assume you already know this - but you can burn up the turbo on a 450C by towing it on a trailer if it's facing forward - unless you cover up that exhaust pipe. We ruined a few brand new Cs that way. Chimny effect will make the turbo spin when there's no engine oil pressure to protect it.

[Hartlyboy]

Hey, thanks for that tip on the turbo. I had not even considered that possibility. Will definitely make some sort of cover to protect the turbo [I assume it's still working]. It also gets pretty windy out here sometimes for days at a time. I'm surrounded by open fields which doesn't break the wind speed as it whips past. Sounds like it couldn't hurt to have a cover made for my new stack until I get a shed built to keep the machine under.

Thanks again for the tip.

[digitup2]

The only way you can burn up a turbo's bearings is#1 if it is an old style turbo with the return hose on the bottom [a 450c is newer than that the return leaves oil in bearing houseing ] or#2 it has not enough oil in bearing houseing [sat for several weeks on the float ]and or #3 you are going several hundred miles [Then yes cap it ] .If you have an exhaust flare it should flare to the side not forward or back . The thought was the oil reserve between the impellers got pumped out while traveling .Load her up and get truckin .Worry more about a drain in the muffler bottom if you have a straight pipe sittin out in the rain .Digitup.

[jdemaris]

The only way you can burn up a turbo's bearings is#1 if it is an old style turbo with the return hose on the bottom [a 450c is newer than that the return leaves oil in bearing houseing ]

As I said before - we sold 450Cs brand new and burnt out the turbos on several when delivering on a tilt-bed. Same happened with a few farm tractors. As far as the distance and speed it takes ?? I couldn't tell you - we didn't exactly conduct a scientific experiment. We sold machines all over the northeast and often had to drive 100 - 500 miles away to deliver them at speeds over 60 MPH.

It takes very little work to cover the exhaust - so it seems a bit silly to take the chance if any kind of highway travel was involved. We also got several warnings from Deere company about voiding warranties on failed turbos in situations involving trucking.

I will also add - there's a big difference between a new and tight turbo - and one that is well used. Many are worn enough that they need oil pressure to keep them centered and not scrub.