isolater broken on a 350B

[gene s]

New to this site & I like what I've seen. I think I have a broken isolater but I'm not sure. I was tearing down a small barn the other day, the machine was running great. All of a sudden this load noise came out of the area in the front of the reverser housing, I can only describe the noise as a sound you might hear if you put a bunch of septic stone in an old oil grum and rolled it down a hill. Sounds bad & I hope it didn't mess anything else up. Anyway I'm starting to pull the engine out tonite, any help or advise would be apprieciated.

[jdemaris]

New to this site & I like what I've seen. I think I have a broken isolater but I'm not sure. . . . Anyway I'm starting to pull the engine out tonite, any help or advise would be apprieciated.

Make sure all is perfect when you put it back together. Those mid-range isolators caused many problems. We had several brand new 350Cs sieze up before they even got sold and left the lot. If money was no object, and you intend to use this machine for a long time - you're probably better off updating it to the newer isolator used in 350D series and newer. That's what Deere Co. does with older 350s. Updating requires a newers style flywheel.

The first 350s did not have the isolator; they used a spring-dampened clutch disk instead and worked fine.

Later 350s up through the "C" range used the mess that you have. Make sure every spring post is unworn, every spring perfect or new, all the spring-clips unworn, the dowell-pin-stops in the flywheel tight, fiber-wear-facing and splines still good on the isolator plate, etc. When you put it back together, all the openings of the spring hooks need to face the correct direction and make sure you use a lot of Loctite on all fasteners.

350Ds and newer use a one-piece isolator that will never come apart. When Deere Co. upgrades/rebuilds older 350s in the "Certified Relife" program, they update all the isolators to the new style.

[gene s]

thanks for the info. I do use this machine quite a bit, usually nothing too heavy. Since I just put a new undercarriage on it a few years ago I think I will consider going with the upgrade. I've had this machine since 1986, it's a 1973, and it's always done a good job with no major problems till now.

[mini kahuna]

if you plan on keeping it"sounds like you do",bite the bullet and install the upgrade.

[gene s]

I plan on keeping this machine. I have a habit of keeping stuff that works well. I still have 2 of the 3 massey-ferguson industrial tractor/loaders I've bought. Would still have 3 if I didn't leave one at my dads place 4 yrs. ago, along with my new JD 495 lawn tractor, which were in his building when the building caught fire 4 yrs. ago. Anyway I got the bucket off, and front nose off the 350B the other nite, but thats about it rite now. Family matters, like finalizing my youngest daughters wedding are gonna slow me down a bit, but not too much. Until I get the old isolator out to see exactly what's going on I'm holding off on new parts ordering. I will upgrade to the 1 piece unit, it definately sounds like the way to go.

[mini kahuna]

I am the same way gene,keep that 350 going,they are great machines.
while you have it all tore apart,I myself would replace the rear and front main seals and oil pan gasket etc,then you be all set for a long time again.

[gene s]

Pulled the engine the other day, when I did, chunks of spring fell out. When these springs break they sure can make a mess of things. Some chunks of spring were jammed behind the flywheel and took out 3 teeth on the flywheel gear. Ordered the upgrade isolater and a new flywheel from Deere, they said 3-4 days delivery. Am putting new front and rear seals in also. The upgraded parts cost $1865.00 versus$1468 to stay with the old syle, that would have required all new springs, studs, plate etc. I guess it was a no brainer to upgrade.

[gene s]

Still waiting for a new flywheel, all other parts came in at the dealer. The parts guy said he's still trying to get a flywheel. He now tells me maybe by the end of the week. I wonder if this is common in general for these older machines or what?

[CatD8RII]

Just a thought, will a new flywheel that supposed to fit a 3164 fit the 3152 engine? Also, I thought they switched the isolaters while they were making the 350C(As the parts book lists 2 isolaters at a different s/n).

[jdemaris]

Just a thought, will a new flywheel that supposed to fit a 3164 fit the 3152 engine? Also, I thought they switched the isolaters while they were making the 350C(As the parts book lists 2 isolaters at a different s/n).

A 350C can have a 152, a 164, or a 179 diesel. All 350Cs that have been "recertified" by Deere Co. have 179 c.i. engines.

The crankshaft for a 350B, 350C,350D and 355D is the same regardless if a 152 or 164. Same for the reverser input shafts. Subsequently, there's no problem swapping isolators and flywheels around.

When new, early 350Cs had multi-piece isolators, and late 350Cs had the one-piece.

[CatD8RII]

Thats good to know if i ever run into a snag with mine. I rebuilt the older style isolator when i did my 350C. I wasnt 100% sure if the newer flywheel would fit my 3152, and my local dealer priced an old isolater with all the srings retainers etc at about 700 bucks, the new one was 950 plus 600 for the flywheel. Whats even more strange is that my local ag dealer was able to get the actual isolater (AT315819), but couldnt get the srpings and studs? Thats a good price that you got, id have done the update for that price if i knew the parts would have fit. I think the main thing with the old style, like jdemarris says is to pay attention to every little detail, spring direction, retainer orienation and lots of red loc-tite.

[gene s]

All my parts came in now, including the flywheel I've been waiting for. After seeing the new style isolator and comparing it to the old one, I would have been a bigger fool than some people say I am not to switch. But boy is the new flywheel heavy compared to the old one. Anyway if all goes according to plan I should be up and running over the weekend.

[mini kahuna]

your right gene,the new style isolator is so simple and rugged compared to the original,you have to see the two side by side to truely understand.
the old style isolator was/is a real mess,what deere was thinking when they designed that thing,who knows.
good luck on you repairs,your 350 will be much happier as a result!!

[gene s]

Started to work on my 350B last nite. Everything started out well with removing the old rear seal except I couldn't get the seal sleeve off of the crank without removing the flywheel housing. Now I need to get a new gasket for the housing, unless I can get a new gasket ASAP I'm stuck. The other option is to use RTV?? Anyone have thoughts on this. I won't use RTV unless someone else had sucess using it. Pulling the engine out isn't very hard, but it's not so easy that I'd try something that isn't proven. The time involved to pull the engine would make me wait for a gasket so I don't have to pull it again. Replaceing the isolator is not difficult, but it is definitely not an easy fix, very time consuming.

[gene s]

Well, finally got done with daughters wedding and my house guests finally went home. So I got back on my project. Installed new isolater, updated style and new input shaft on the reverser. Put engine back into unit, but was amazed at how hard it was to pull the engine together to the reverser case. It went together, but was very tough to pull together. I was able to turn engine at all times, but I've never had such a hard time putting truck engines to transmissions. Did I do something wrong or is this normal. I do know that the new shaft I installed did only go into the isolater plate about a 1/4" before I couldn't easily push it in, when I was checking to make sure splines lined up before shaft got installed in the reverser.