Hello from another new member.
I too got the bug earlier this year and bought a older model 1968 to 1971 JD350B loader crawler. When I inspected it (drove it around for an hour) the steering seems to work quite well, the left better than the right. I got several of the fluids changed and moved it to my property to clear land (stumps, rocks, and saplings). I get to my property once a month then run the machine over an 8 hour day for that month, during this work day, the steering got less and less effective, to the point where to turn my machine, I often put it in reverse and pull on the opposite lever to line myself up to do what I want to do in forward. I am bottoming the levers to the chair frame with sometimes little to no turning. The odd thing I've found is that if I bring the bucket up about 8 feet while traveling forward, the levers are more effective and I can steer going forward, but am still pulling the levers back to the seat frame to get movement.
Can anyone tell me if this is a hydraulics issue (due to having better steering with the bucket up in the air and I'm hearing a hydraulic whine) or a steering clutch adjustment issue (I've not looked to see if there's any more adjustment capability yet) or a clutch replacement issue (ugh).
Thanks. I appreciate all the great comments I've read so far.
More Steering Questions
Hi Smiley-welcome to the forum.
I am probably not the best authority on this subject, but my understanding is that the 350Bs are mechanical steering clutches, so the hydraulic system on your loader bucket should have no direct relation to your steering. I have a 2010 which has similar mechanical steering clutches, and it is actually nice that the hydraulic system for the loader is isolated from the rest of the hydraulic systems on the crawler, including the H-L-R transmission. That has been a lifesaver as I have blown a loader hose before and lost bucket control but was able to drive back to my work shop.
My right steering clutch is currently not working properly either, and I have been relying on steering both directions with the left clutch. It got worse on me after I sunk the right side housing in a mud bog so I think moisture may have rusted up some of the steel discs in the right steering clutch. Have you been covering your machine? Maybe some moisture got into the housings and started rusting your steel discs. I also block my levers back when I am done using the machine; it may be wearing out my pressure plate springs but the alternative (stuck clutch) is worse.
The first thing you should do is check the adjustment of the steering levers and engagement of the throwout bearing related to the brake engagement. The adjustment procedures are in the owner's manual, and there should be inspection plates on the top of each steering clutch housing. It sounds like the levers are out of adjustment, but rectifying that may or may not fix your problem. If not, it sounds like you may be looking at steering clutch replacement.
I'm guessing what may be helping the steering when you lift the bucket in forward gear is that you are changing the center of gravity of the crawler on the undercarriage which is helping the weak steering.
I am probably not the best authority on this subject, but my understanding is that the 350Bs are mechanical steering clutches, so the hydraulic system on your loader bucket should have no direct relation to your steering. I have a 2010 which has similar mechanical steering clutches, and it is actually nice that the hydraulic system for the loader is isolated from the rest of the hydraulic systems on the crawler, including the H-L-R transmission. That has been a lifesaver as I have blown a loader hose before and lost bucket control but was able to drive back to my work shop.
My right steering clutch is currently not working properly either, and I have been relying on steering both directions with the left clutch. It got worse on me after I sunk the right side housing in a mud bog so I think moisture may have rusted up some of the steel discs in the right steering clutch. Have you been covering your machine? Maybe some moisture got into the housings and started rusting your steel discs. I also block my levers back when I am done using the machine; it may be wearing out my pressure plate springs but the alternative (stuck clutch) is worse.
The first thing you should do is check the adjustment of the steering levers and engagement of the throwout bearing related to the brake engagement. The adjustment procedures are in the owner's manual, and there should be inspection plates on the top of each steering clutch housing. It sounds like the levers are out of adjustment, but rectifying that may or may not fix your problem. If not, it sounds like you may be looking at steering clutch replacement.
I'm guessing what may be helping the steering when you lift the bucket in forward gear is that you are changing the center of gravity of the crawler on the undercarriage which is helping the weak steering.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
Thanks Tigerhaze,
On the 350B it has hydraulic assist for the steering which is why I thought lifting the bucket may have some some hydraulic impact, but thinking about it perhaps shifting center of gravity is really what's helping it. I do keep it covered and have not gotten into wet areas. I was told if I do move it around once a month it would be enough to keep the clutches rust free. It just seems odd that it worked good when I bought it then after a few months of use they degraded the way they did. I wonder if someone sprayed some type of dressing on the clutches to temporarily work well.
As for clutch replacement, any idea on amount of effort to do this, or costs involved? I do have the manuals and plan on inspecting the linkage adjustments but don't want to go too deep into this as I've not had experience in tearing down this type of equipment.
On the 350B it has hydraulic assist for the steering which is why I thought lifting the bucket may have some some hydraulic impact, but thinking about it perhaps shifting center of gravity is really what's helping it. I do keep it covered and have not gotten into wet areas. I was told if I do move it around once a month it would be enough to keep the clutches rust free. It just seems odd that it worked good when I bought it then after a few months of use they degraded the way they did. I wonder if someone sprayed some type of dressing on the clutches to temporarily work well.
As for clutch replacement, any idea on amount of effort to do this, or costs involved? I do have the manuals and plan on inspecting the linkage adjustments but don't want to go too deep into this as I've not had experience in tearing down this type of equipment.
Hi Smiley-
I'm supries that the crawler "gurus" hadn't corrected me yet- that's what I get for shooting from the hip
I hadn't thought about hydraulic assist on the clutches, but now that you mention it I remember a couple of posts discussing them so you may want to do a search on here.
I would still guess that the loader hydraulics are seperate from the hydraulic assist but I really don't know about that system. I have a H-L-R transmission so that may make a difference (I think someone told me only the 450 series had the H-L-R). It still seems that you shouldn't have to pull the levers all the way back even with hydarulic assist and that an adjustment is needed. You probably need to have Lavoy, Digitup, Jdemaris, or others knowledgeable on the 350Bs to weigh in on that.
It seems that most of ther time when people post about non-responsive mechanical steering clutches, it's either because the steel discs have rusted into a solid mass or the fiber discs have been contaminated with oil leaking from the final drives. I think most have recommended against pouring anything into the clutch housings (especially not oil which will cause you to replace the fiber discs), but the few that have recommend keorsene. Usually that is a last ditch effort for stuck clutches.
I believe that the 350 series is easier to do clutches than the 2010s. On my machine I would have to pull the finals to work on the clutch- you may have the option to pull the clutches out of an access port without removing the finals but you really will need to check as I have only heard that- I don't have the manuals for the 350 series so I can't say for sure. The manual would also answer your question about which hydraulic system (transmission or loader) runs the hydraulic clutch assist. Lavoy should be able to provide you costs for the clutch components.
Sorry I can't be more help.
I'm supries that the crawler "gurus" hadn't corrected me yet- that's what I get for shooting from the hip
I hadn't thought about hydraulic assist on the clutches, but now that you mention it I remember a couple of posts discussing them so you may want to do a search on here.
I would still guess that the loader hydraulics are seperate from the hydraulic assist but I really don't know about that system. I have a H-L-R transmission so that may make a difference (I think someone told me only the 450 series had the H-L-R). It still seems that you shouldn't have to pull the levers all the way back even with hydarulic assist and that an adjustment is needed. You probably need to have Lavoy, Digitup, Jdemaris, or others knowledgeable on the 350Bs to weigh in on that.
It seems that most of ther time when people post about non-responsive mechanical steering clutches, it's either because the steel discs have rusted into a solid mass or the fiber discs have been contaminated with oil leaking from the final drives. I think most have recommended against pouring anything into the clutch housings (especially not oil which will cause you to replace the fiber discs), but the few that have recommend keorsene. Usually that is a last ditch effort for stuck clutches.
I believe that the 350 series is easier to do clutches than the 2010s. On my machine I would have to pull the finals to work on the clutch- you may have the option to pull the clutches out of an access port without removing the finals but you really will need to check as I have only heard that- I don't have the manuals for the 350 series so I can't say for sure. The manual would also answer your question about which hydraulic system (transmission or loader) runs the hydraulic clutch assist. Lavoy should be able to provide you costs for the clutch components.
Sorry I can't be more help.
Last edited by Tigerhaze on Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
I found this post- the last post at the end by Digitup may explain alot about your steering situation.
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... assist+350
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... assist+350
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
The 350 and 450 series right up to and including the B series have the ability to quickly wander from the clutch and brake settings have patience with these old Deeres and once you get good at setting them up they will run nice .I don't have any thing of that age around any more or I would find you the settings in the TMs I found that the Deere survice guys couldn't set them the way I liked them even .No two linkages are exactly the same or move the same .Get someone to sit on it and pull the leavers as you set it up .A little bit of wrenchin and the right curse words and you should have it !!.There is a spesific pull distance between the clutch release and the brake start .Remember If you set either after you set that distance it is slightly out of wack again.So pack some patience in the tool box as well, Digitup.
Thanks Tigerhaze and Digitup2, you've restored my hopes to resolving this more easily than I was thinking, so I'll hope for the best and go from there. Bottom line is that I need to go thru the adjustments and see what I got there. Now since my machine is at my deer camp, and the manuals do not specifically show where the adjustment plates are, can you give me some direction on where to locate these. Are they under some other component? Can anyone give me a direction to locate these access areas from a common locating point?
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jdemaris
Re: More Steering Questions
When you say it does not "steer" well, are you referring to "going" or "stopping" ? When you pull back hard on a steering lever - I assume you are attempting to make the steering brake engage - which has nothing to do with the steering clutches (assuming they are not stuck). If this is the case, try some simple adjustments on the brake first. It only takes a few minutes. Keep in mind that all the 350s, including the "C" series, all mechanically braked. Even though your crawler has power assist - they will work regardless if the power works or not.Smiley wrote:Hello from another new member.
I too got the bug earlier this year and bought a older model 1968 to 1971 JD350B loader crawler. When I inspected it (drove it around for an hour) the steering seems to
during this work day, the steering got less and less effective, to the point where to turn my machine,
I am bottoming the levers to the chair frame with sometimes little to no turning.
On your machine, just pull the inspection cover off - and tighten the "initial adjuster" nut. Usually takes a 3/4" wrench. Tighten it until it fells snug - then back it off approx. 1/2 turn. This adjuster nut has high and low spots and needs to come to rest in one of the low spots. Once you've done this - you set the size of the installed brake band to match the brake drum - allowing for wear. Then . . . you adjust the steeing lever linkage to make sure the brake gets engaged.
The key to all of this - is - the steering clutch gets disengaged just before the brake grabs. A simple test is as follows. Put the crawler in forward, going up a hill. While travelling forward, pull back on both steering clutch levers - and - there should be a narrow point when the crawler freely rolls backwards even though it's in a forward gear with the clutch pedal up. Pull back just a bit further and it stops from the brakes engaging.
I hate to even speculate now as I was wrong about some aspects of the 350s, but on my 2010 the inspection access plates are on top of each steering clutch housing. If you are sitting in the crawler's seat they would be to each side of the armrests. The housing sort of forms a high spot on each side between the main body of the crawler and the final drives. On my 2010 the loader hydraulic reservoir is on one side and the loader valve lever box on the other. Of course I am probably wrong for the 350s.Smiley wrote:Now since my machine is at my deer camp, and the manuals do not specifically show where the adjustment plates are, can you give me some direction on where to locate these. Are they under some other component? Can anyone give me a direction to locate these access areas from a common locating point?
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
Yes, JDE MARIS, I've not had an issue with stopping. I simply depress the clutch and within a few feet I'm at zero. I rarely need to use the brake and actually question how effective it is in the first place. Yes going straight forward is no issue as is going straight in reverse. All four gears move this beast along straight pretty well with no issue to date. Only steering going forward is slow to no response with the levers right or left all the way to the seat frame. Usually when I first start it working they are more aggressive and responds better (left better than right) but as the hours slip away, I find that trying to steer in forward is tough to do especially if I don't have more than say 30 feet to even begin to veer it. So I found that by going in reverse and pulling the opposite lever, I can stop one track fairly well (usually left) pivot the machine and then go into forward.
I've also found that pulling back on the levers slowly versus fast will provide better response. If I pull back fast, no steering right or left occurs so I have to release the lever (right or left) then slowly engage and maybe she'll turn, again mostly in forward than in reverse.
Interesting your advice is on the steering brake. I made the bad assumption the clutches were the business action for steering. What your saying is that it's the clutch that die-engages and then its the brake that stops the one track while the other is driving which causes the turn. So given this, then this could just all be linkage adjustments or what you were concerned with earlier, a frozen clutch plate that doesn't disengage. But given that I can depress the clutch and she stops quick, likely not a stuck on clutch, right? Now I think I'm getting it and the manual makes more sense now. Any thoughts on why I'm getting a track to stop in reverse easier? Also another clue it's not likely a stuck clutch or am I getting this wrong??
I've also found that pulling back on the levers slowly versus fast will provide better response. If I pull back fast, no steering right or left occurs so I have to release the lever (right or left) then slowly engage and maybe she'll turn, again mostly in forward than in reverse.
Interesting your advice is on the steering brake. I made the bad assumption the clutches were the business action for steering. What your saying is that it's the clutch that die-engages and then its the brake that stops the one track while the other is driving which causes the turn. So given this, then this could just all be linkage adjustments or what you were concerned with earlier, a frozen clutch plate that doesn't disengage. But given that I can depress the clutch and she stops quick, likely not a stuck on clutch, right? Now I think I'm getting it and the manual makes more sense now. Any thoughts on why I'm getting a track to stop in reverse easier? Also another clue it's not likely a stuck clutch or am I getting this wrong??
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jdemaris
The brake bands do better at "self energizing" in reverse, that's all. If the band is worn and/or out of adjustment, oil soaked, etc., it will work better going backwards.Smiley wrote:. . . Any thoughts on why I'm getting a track to stop in reverse easier? Also another clue it's not likely a stuck clutch or am I getting this wrong??
In regard to needing brakes for good steering - yes, you need them. If you don't need to make sharp turns, you CAN steer by just declutching - but it's slow and makes big circles. Some crawlers have the declutching and braking in separate areas - e.g. Allis Chalmers HD5s and 6s. They have steering levers to declutch, and foot pedals for the track-brakes.
Since Deere has both actions on one lever, adjustment and timing needs to be correct (timing between declutching and braking).
The inpsection covers are under the seat. One on each side, and each held on by four bolts.
I'm currently rebuilding one of my steering cluthes. I would strongly suggest going on ebay and buying a service manual and parts manual as I did. What a big help! The foot clutch has nothing to do with the steering clutches it is a separate clutch located behind the engine. The steering clutches are on each side of the machine above the final drives. My guess is if they work some of the time then you may be able to adjust them. At first glance the linkage and adjustments look complicated but as the manuals helped me see, it is really quite simple. One thing I found is if you jack up the machine so that the tracks are off the ground(use a bottle jack and block up the rear and raise the front with the bucket) You can run the machine and with the covers off, watch the clutch engage and then the brake.
I'm not yet an expert by no means since I too am a new JD 350 owner, but the manuals are really a big help. I had one clutch that was rusted solid due to water getting into the final drive and sitting too long. Good Luck
I'm not yet an expert by no means since I too am a new JD 350 owner, but the manuals are really a big help. I had one clutch that was rusted solid due to water getting into the final drive and sitting too long. Good Luck
350 diesel crawler w/bucket
New twist on my steering issue
Howdy folks,
It's been awhile since my last posting and i thought i fixed my issue, at least good enough for what i needed to do, but ran into a new twist on it. As you may recall from the previous string, we all thought it was the steering clutches needing adjustments. I went to my deer camp with the intent to perform the adjustments. When i looked at steering adjustments all looked good. i then noticed that the seat track was adjustable and thought that since it was fairly far forward, i'd move it back for myself. when i did, the steering lever no longer bottomed out and viola, i could steer reasonably well on the right as well as the left. At that time i said good to go. i worked the machine the rest of the summer without any real issue.
Now for the twist....
I went to deer camp for muzzelloading season, and came across 2.5 feet of snow. i ended up leaving my trailer 2 miles away from camp and walked in. i got the 350B started and initially all was well, cleared out camp and got to the main road with no issue. Traveling down the 2 miles of road i started to feel the machine chatter, like running on a washboard road. since i was on a dirt road, that's what i thought it was. it would come and go while i was driving in 2nd gear (not as pronounced), but when i got into 3rd, very pronounced. Anyway, being 2 miles from camp, i hooked up my trailer and started back. At this time it was 7 degrees, i was cold and 2nd gear is a slow walk, so i put it into thrid and took the heavy vibration. Anyway after about 10 mins of it, all of a sudden, the machine smoothed out 100%. The steering worked the best it ever had right and left. This lasted about 20 minutes. I then moved the bucket a bit and the machine immediately started the chatter/washboard the rest of the way back to camp. The steering response turned back to poor left and very poor right. Well i got it into camp and parked it. The next day it started well, but no steering on the right at all, only left and poor at that.
It seems to me that given the on/off situation, there's something not aligned or popped in / out. Does anyone have an idea on what it could be? Any suggestions?
It's been awhile since my last posting and i thought i fixed my issue, at least good enough for what i needed to do, but ran into a new twist on it. As you may recall from the previous string, we all thought it was the steering clutches needing adjustments. I went to my deer camp with the intent to perform the adjustments. When i looked at steering adjustments all looked good. i then noticed that the seat track was adjustable and thought that since it was fairly far forward, i'd move it back for myself. when i did, the steering lever no longer bottomed out and viola, i could steer reasonably well on the right as well as the left. At that time i said good to go. i worked the machine the rest of the summer without any real issue.
Now for the twist....
I went to deer camp for muzzelloading season, and came across 2.5 feet of snow. i ended up leaving my trailer 2 miles away from camp and walked in. i got the 350B started and initially all was well, cleared out camp and got to the main road with no issue. Traveling down the 2 miles of road i started to feel the machine chatter, like running on a washboard road. since i was on a dirt road, that's what i thought it was. it would come and go while i was driving in 2nd gear (not as pronounced), but when i got into 3rd, very pronounced. Anyway, being 2 miles from camp, i hooked up my trailer and started back. At this time it was 7 degrees, i was cold and 2nd gear is a slow walk, so i put it into thrid and took the heavy vibration. Anyway after about 10 mins of it, all of a sudden, the machine smoothed out 100%. The steering worked the best it ever had right and left. This lasted about 20 minutes. I then moved the bucket a bit and the machine immediately started the chatter/washboard the rest of the way back to camp. The steering response turned back to poor left and very poor right. Well i got it into camp and parked it. The next day it started well, but no steering on the right at all, only left and poor at that.
It seems to me that given the on/off situation, there's something not aligned or popped in / out. Does anyone have an idea on what it could be? Any suggestions?
Hi Smiley-
Unfortunately I don't have any answers for you but do have some things to ponder and that others can weigh in on.
The steering clutches on the 350Bs are mechanical, but as I learned last year as discussed in this post they do have hydraulic assist (sort of like power steering for a car). It would seem to me that your temporary "better steering" may be due to the hydraulic assist intermittently operating. I am not sure whether the hydraulics for that are run off the loader system- but if so then maybe moving the bucket is pushing fluid back into (or out of) the reservoir. I would check your loader reservoir and filter within it to see if you are low on fluid and/or have water in the fluid. There is an indicator (at least on my 2010) is the reservoir filter is clogged. Did you ever find out how the assist is powered?
It is hard for me to speculate why the machine would be chattering- so the engine itself runs fine and it is a drivetrain/driveline issue?
Hope this helps, or at least stimulates additional discussion.
Unfortunately I don't have any answers for you but do have some things to ponder and that others can weigh in on.
The steering clutches on the 350Bs are mechanical, but as I learned last year as discussed in this post they do have hydraulic assist (sort of like power steering for a car). It would seem to me that your temporary "better steering" may be due to the hydraulic assist intermittently operating. I am not sure whether the hydraulics for that are run off the loader system- but if so then maybe moving the bucket is pushing fluid back into (or out of) the reservoir. I would check your loader reservoir and filter within it to see if you are low on fluid and/or have water in the fluid. There is an indicator (at least on my 2010) is the reservoir filter is clogged. Did you ever find out how the assist is powered?
It is hard for me to speculate why the machine would be chattering- so the engine itself runs fine and it is a drivetrain/driveline issue?
Hope this helps, or at least stimulates additional discussion.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
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jdemaris
It that 350B has power steering, it's a self-contained system. Uses a power steering pump run off the engine camshaft in front - not much different than what GM used in cars and pickup trucks. Has it's own oil reservoir too.Tigerhaze wrote:
It would seem to me that your temporary "better steering" may be due to the hydraulic assist intermittently operating. I am not sure whether the hydraulics for that are run off the loader system- but if so then maybe moving the bucket is pushing fluid back into (or out of) the reservoir.
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