Snow Tracks JD350

[KenP]

First time poster here... I've been "lurking" on this site since buying my first crawler, a 1969 350 loader, for doing work on my property in New England (NH). It appears to be in reasonable condition, runs well, and has a 93A hoe on the back. I've slowly been working my way through the machine using the original factory tech manual the previous owner had.
Last winter, we had record snow fall (and ice) up here and after numerous driveway plowings, the plowed path got too small and I had to hire a gent with a bulldozer to push the snow banks back. I hope to add this task to the JD350 if it should happen again.
Now to my question. After reading numerous postings on the web about steel track and ice/snow, I got very interested in what type of shoes were on my machine. My driveway is 1/3 mile long and far from flat. I have no desire to go "skating" down the mountain while sitting on my 350, especially since it does not have a ROPS.
Several knowledgeable guys (including the heavy equipment mover that brought it here) commented that they had never seen tracks like I have on my machine. There are short grousers on each shoe. Alternating shoes have a grouser in the center, over the chain, while the adjacent shoe has two grousers separated by a gap. While looking at the Deere parts site, they show this shoe combination as "shoe, snow".
Has anyone used these shoes on snow/ice? Are they really better than regular shoes?
How common are these?
Looking for any info I can find on these shoes or modifications others may have made to their shoes for better traction on ice/snow.
Anyone in New England got a ROPS cage they'd like to sell?
Thanks! KenP

[digitup2]

They do keep your grousers from packing with snow if the conditions are right but are mostly used for side hill aplications to keep from skateing sideways .We use them on our drainage plows with a 4 inch lug as they clean out nice on sod and penatrate mud like crazy .At one time the deere parts book showed a stud that you could screw into a stock hole in the grouser .This would stick up an inch past the grouser heigth to keep from skateing .But would create a mess of any float plank instantly .I have only seen a triple grouser crawler loader with these and they worked well .When he wanted a float I was busy for some unknown reason .Digitup.

[teighs]

Caution, they are SNOW pad, not ice pads. You are walking a fine line with a loader, if you get the tracks enough grip so they feel secure on ice on a side hill, you will probably tear up the drive train in the summer when they get really good grip in the dirt and you try to turn.

Back when I build my house I had a 2010 dozer, that had been owned by a logger at some time during its lifespan. He had welded caulks to the grousers, that's a little 1"x 1" tab of metal on edge on top of the grouser, one on each end of alternating grousers, and in the middle of the others. They really tore up the ground in the summer, but those picks were totally useless when I tried to negotiate the driveway after a freezing rain storm. The only thing that kept the ride from becoming a disaster was the substantial snow bank.

Here is a picture that happened to someone else: http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ight=slide

[Lavoy]

Post a pic, it sounds to me like you have 3 bar semi-grousers that have had grouser stock welded to them. IF they were actual snow shoes, every pad would have a grouser. One pad would have a notch in the center of the grouser, the other on the ends, and the whole track alternates that way.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Sounds to me like he's describing the high section of the snow pad grousers. They alternate like his description....

I have the snow pads on my 420c and they work great in snow and mud, but not so great on ice. To correct this, ice caulks were added to each pad. These are conical headed bolts that replace the standard pad retaining bolts.

When in place, the ice caulks act as ice studs on the tracks. The cones are higher than the grouser, so they poke into the ice from the weight before the grouser lands. They do a wonderful job of holding the machine on ice. Our old driveway up in the mountains of NY was 32 degrees, and the old girl never slipped on the ice when plowing snow.

The problem is, where would one get ice caulks these days? We had a box full from the days when they were a stocked item, but I have no new ones left - only the set that are on the machine and they're worn down pretty good now. Not that it matters as I (and the machine) are now in NC where I don't need to plow snow. And, if I did, the ground wouldn't likely be frozen to the point where the grousers alone would not do the job.

Later!

Stan

[jdemaris]

There are short grousers on each shoe. Alternating shoes have a grouser in the center, over the chain, while the adjacent shoe has two grousers separated by a gap. While looking at the Deere parts site, they show this shoe combination as "shoe, snow".

I think just about every 350 or 450 we ever sold had those snow shoes on them. Our dealership is in central New York. We get a lot of snow and ice and many 350s got sold to loggers as "bunching" machines.

The pad staggering is supposed to help with self-cleaning in snow, that's all. The big danger is skidding sideways - and they don't help with that, at all. You can use high "ice bolts" to fasten the pads, or add ice-bolts, and/or weld on grouser cleats perpindicular to the exisitng grouser bars.

[Lavoy]

I was thinking he meant every other grouser on the 3 bar pads, DOH!
Lavoy

[KenP]

Gents. Thanks so much for all of the information. After reading all of the responses, I checked the shoes more carefully, and now believe that someone has attempted to copy the Deere snow shoe configuration by welding grouser stock onto the shoes. They've been on there for a while as the shoes are well worn and the tops of the "bars" are mushroomed a bit.
Hopefully, the pix comes through.
Thanks, KenP

[jdemaris]

. . . I checked the shoes more carefully, and now believe that someone has attempted to copy the Deere snow shoe configuration by welding grouser stock onto the shoes. They've been on there for a while as the shoes are well worn and the

Those are loader-type "street" pads with grouser-bars added. Nothing wrong with that . . . but . . . as I stated before - they won't give you protection from ice sliding. The best protection is . . . don't use a steel track machine on ice, period. If you must, there are several ways to go. You can install special pad bolts with high heads - but that's a lot of work. You can also just add high-headed ice-bolts to the extra holes you've got in the pads. Or, add weld on some cleats that go sideways to the bars already welded onto you pads. We did many for loggers who ran dozers all winter, often on sidehills.

I'll add, I can recall two customers of our's that got killed - from their crawlers sliding sideways. Ironically, even though they were both loggers - both of them got killed while loading their crawlers onto trailers and slding off sideways.

[shinnery]

Let's try it with it all on one line.

[Lavoy]

Okay, I wasn't screwed up, that is exactly what I thought he had in the first place.
Lavoy

[digitup2]

I would say that there is just enough grouser added but someone didn't add enough traction with those to harm the drive train .The grousers that we add on Plow tractors at three inches deep are just a bit extreem for most normal applications .We use them to get maximum tractive pull up to 88000 lbs to pull the plow through the ground and drain some ugly wet holes on swampy farm land . If you get on good going and hit a rock somthing brakes and it probably isn't the rock !.Most drive trains can not take extreem traction .So it's better to slip the tracks than gernade a bull gear assembly .Deeres little crawler loader units can multiply traction with a good bucket full of dirt enough to push the gears apart in the bull assembly tearing ont teath berrings and housings the 555s are bad for collapsing the berring assembly and takeing the teath off the bull and input gears when they get down to lifting and great traction it can easy be the death of a rearend .Digitup.