Buying a 350? Some things to look out for . . . many photos

[KenP]

Well, there's good news after all. Rainy day here so spent it doing web research on the Roosa Master CBC injection pumps.
I found 4 different diesel injection pump rebuilders across the country that claim to rebuild these pumps. Prices vary a lot from a high of 800 dollars (with your old pump in trade) to about $350 so it pays to shop around.
One of these companies sent me an email. Here's what he said:

"Yes, we still rebuild those pumps every day. I would need your pump model number to see if we had an exchange on hand. We can also rebuild your pump as long as the head and rotor is not seized. If your pump is seized we would not be able to offer you an exchange or rebuild your pump as that part is no longer available. We can help you convert to the replacement JDB pump if you need to go that route. If you send your pump in for repair it would cost $342.00 plus parts for an overhaul."

They must have made a lot of these pumps if there's still money to be made many years after ceasing production. And, if several companies are doing rebuilds, there must be a supply of aftermarket parts coming from somewhere.
So, perhaps Deere has given up on supporting the CBC pumps after all these years but other companies have not.
Hope this helps someone out there in JD crawler land.
KenP

[jdemaris]

Well, there's good news after all. Rainy day here so spent it doing web research on the Roosa Master CBC injection pumps.
I found 4 different diesel injection pump rebuilders across the country that claim to rebuild these pumps.

It sounds good, but I'd believe it when I saw it. Ask any of them that rebuild them if you can buy #1, a simple seal kit, or #2 a rack and pinion gear-set for the throttle (the main wear item).

I'm skeptical, but I've been wrong before. Stanadyne hasn't made any of the parts since the late 80s. To my knowledge, no aftermarket company makes them either. I buy from several, especially Spaco in Italy that specializes in Stanadyne replacement parts.

A guy nearby that I've known for 30+ years has his own diesel pump repair shop and speciallizes in Deere. That because he started out in a back room of a Deere tractor dealership in Cazenovia, New York. He has a bigger shop there now - i.e. "Ralph's Diesel. " Years back, he had stockpiled parts for the C series pumps when they were discontinued. There were people all over the country sending him pumps to fix when nobody else would touch them. He finally stopped last year - he's out of parts - used, new-old-stock, etc. Nothing left. I know he checked with several pump people around the country and said there were longer any new parts being supplied.

Subsequently, what you're telling me is quite a surprise. A pleasant one, if true. Seems they must be using used parts, or new-old-stock - or - maybe some Chinese company finally began making the stuff?

Can you post the names of the shops; I want to check into it. I also want to ask exactly what new parts come in one of these rebuilt pumps. I know several people right now that have been searching all over for - seal kits, rack and pinion gear sets, and electric shut-off solenoids. If the shop people you spoke to can't supply those parts - then I have to wonder how they are patching up pumps. I'm more apt to believe they've got a pile of discarded pumps, and pick through them, use the least worn parts, and put them together. I've done many like that to get someone out of a bind.

On a side-note, just about no pump shop will fix any pump with a siezed head & rotor, regardless of pump model unless the customer is willing to pay a LOT more money. Traditionally, even though the head & rotor is the heart of the pump, it is used over and over in "rebuilt" pumps. Most pump places that advertise exchange pumps have that disclaimer in small print someone. Often, if a pump needs a new head, you can buy a new complete pump just as cheap as fixing the old one. One exception is - if the head & rotor comes from China or India instead of Stanadye (that makes many parts in Italy).

[mailtrain]

jdemaris :

I just bought a 10kw generator set with a White diesel with a stanadyne

pump. Would this be the same application as Deere? Unavailable parts

too?

mailtrain

[KenP]

jdemaris-
Given the background that you've given before, I certainly understand being skeptical. Seems odd, eh? But, how ever these guys are doing it, it would appear they are commercially rebuilding these pumps. It wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese or Indians were making parts. Gosh, it seems like they're making everything else!
Given that one company has offered to "overhaul" my pump for about $350, maybe I should have them go through it despite the fact it seems to be OK??
Its probably 40 years old... maybe time for new seals, etc if they can do it? What do you think? or, just leave it alone and keep my fingers crossed?

Here are some of the sites I found. Only one has responded to my emails so far.

This site specifically calls out the Stanadyne CBC/CDC pump as a product line on their web page:
http://www.connelldiesel.com/products.html

This one lists the CBC pump as an "exhange" for about $800:
http://www.mylexinternational.com/injec ... .htm#trade

This one lists the CBC in their pump exchange list: http://www.centralfuel.com/john%20deere.html

This is the site that responded to my email. Their home page says they specialize in old and obsolete injection pumps:
http://www.dieselspecialties.com/

Here's a specific listing for a rebuilt CBC pump for a 4020:
http://www.dieselspecialties.com/produc ... rodID=4784

Please let us know what you find out.
Thanks, KenP

[jdemaris]

jdemaris-
Given the background that you've given before, I certainly understand Here's a specific listing for a rebuilt CBC pump for a 4020:
http://www.dieselspecialties.com/produc ... rodID=4784

Please let us know what you find out.
Thanks, KenP

I called them up and spoke to one of the guys. They have NO new parts available. What they do have is a bunch of used parts from old pumps. They are fixing pumps with used parts until they run out .

That's what I did for years as well as many others who work in pump repair. So, there is no new source of parts. Just luck-of-the-draw.

I've wondered what ever happened to Deere's parts inventory. Deere had been in the Stanadyne parts business and all the Roosamaster/Stanadyne parts were also available under Deere part numbers. I found new web-listing for a few of the parts - and I'm not sure what language it's in or what country. I often find discontinued parts overseas. I recently needed a new Bosch electronic ignition module for my 045 Stihl chainsaw. It's been unavailable for years in the USA. I just found one in West German - through the German Ebay.

The Deere pump parts at listing at:
http://www.jdparts.com.ar/listado.htm


The most sought after part for a CDC or CBC pump is the rack and pinion gear set that operates the throttle. Once it gets worn out, the pump is trash unless you can replace it somehow. Here are the former Deere part numbers:

Parts - CDC or CBC
Deere seal kit - AT24462
CDC rack - R45055 or T31122 pinion -R45054 Kit - AT30118

CBC solenoid repair kit - AT28952 New solenoid - AT28951
CBC seal kit - AR34612
CBC pinion gear - R45054 Rack - R45055 Governor kit - AT31165

[dale]

Thanks for the pics. Really helps clarify a couple of things I wasn't getting.

[Tigerhaze]

I would second the appreciation for the pics. It would be really nice to see a list of common reoccuring problems unique to each model crawler (combined with pics), if someone with the knowledge and time ever wanted to do it.

[bdcz]

I'm far from an expert but I have done a minor rebuild of my 350. Seems like many of these machines have problems in the area of the main cross frame attachments to the roller frames. This is the joint with 4 bolts on the top and 2 on the inside. My machine had these bolts loose and then the holes wore out oversize. My father in-law has repaired heavy equipment all his life. Doesn't do engine work but mainly structural work. He repaired this joint by welding the main cross frame to the roller frames using a small temporary weld. I also installed new bolts with oversized solid washers, stack of two on each bolt. The idea is that you weld the cross frame to the roller frame in just enough places to hold it from sliding around on the roller frame. Before welding you first align the parts and then tighten the new bolts with washers to hold in place. Then you place short pieces of 1/4 to 3/8 diameter rods along the edges of the joint in the right locations so that when welded in place they will not allow the parts to move in relation to each other in any direction. Then you do a fillet weld on both sides of the rod pieces. So each piece of rod gets welded to the roller frame and to the cross frame. You do this in several places with rods and welds only an inch or two long in each place and you have essentially locked the parts from moving at the joint. The bolts still clamp the joint tight. When it comes time to take things apart you grind into the rods in between the two fillet welds and once through the rod the parts come apart. This turned what could have been a difficult fix into a piece of cake and it's held just fine for 8 years.
I appreciate all the experts on this forum especially because guys like JDemaris have saved me countless problems by pointing out things I need to be wary of. So thanks. Hopefully my idea can help someone out.

[squarede]

i was wondering how you got up here to take pictures of my crawler without me noticing....

[jdemaris]

i was wondering how you got up here to take pictures of my crawler without me noticing....

Hey . . . I used to live about 20 miles north of you - in Albany, Northeast Kingdom. That was awhile back and our main crawler was a 420, not a 350. I have a long-lost cousin in that area that has a Deere dealership. His name has the official French Canadian spelling of Desmarais - unlike mine that has the silent S removed.

[squarede]

I was at the Desmarais dealership yesterday.
They're great guys to deal with and I've spent a lot of $ there.
Wish you were still around here, there are LOTS of old Deere tractors, skidders and Crawlers that need help.

[Dave Seager]

i was wondering how you got up here to take pictures of my crawler without me noticing....

Hey . . . I used to live about 20 miles north of you - in Albany, Northeast Kingdom. That was awhile back and our main crawler was a 420, not a 350. I have a long-lost cousin in that area that has a Deere dealership. His name has the official French Canadian spelling of Desmarais - unlike mine that has the silent S removed.

Small world huh? I've got cousins in East Craftsbury Ever hear of Echo Hill Farm? They have a 420 4 roller with blade that they use for sugaring They have had it since it was new I THINK that it came from a dealer in Morrisville
Dave

[squarede]

That would be that Calderwoods.
Their place is about 8 miles from here.
We have a 4000 tap sugar orchard and use our 350 mostly for skidding sugarwood.
Our closest neighbors here have a hunting camp down the road and are from New Boston.
It is indeed a small road.

[jdemaris]

I was at the Desmarais dealership yesterday.
They're great guys to deal with and I've spent a lot of $ there.
Wish you were still around here, there are LOTS of old Deere tractors, skidders and Crawlers that need help.

I moved out in late 1976. I remember driving up to Newport Center - by the big lake, walking into a store, and buying a brand new, Centennial edition Ruger double-action 357 magnum pistol for $125. Boy, those days are gone.

I was working in a sugar woods near Albany and was living on a farm IN Albany. Out next-door neighbors were the Peters - a big farm family who also did all town road work. My boss was Steve Pitkin. I went back up there a few years ago and the road I lived on, is now named Pitkin Road after him. I think he still lives there. That area has changed a lot since the 70s and it doesn't look wild to me anymore. Wider roads, less trees, and more new houses.