Another Question 350 Winch

[squarede]

OK, Trying to go through the crawler while I have it in the shop, so here goes another question...
My winch has been slipping in the hold position.
I got ready to take it apart, and although it looks like a 3315 winch, the housing is different -for one, no port for adjusting the brake band.
So I take off the left quill cover, and in addition to there being fluid in there (which I guess there shouldn't be), It looks similar but different on the inside.
The adjustment of the brake band is within 1/16, (if it is a 3315).
So I' assume its a bad seal and the oil is why it's slipping.
Can anyone tell me which other winches could fit on this machine so the I can get the correct manual and specs to repair the winch?
Thanks for the help,
Ray

[squarede]

OK, So I found the tag on the winch and it is indeed a 3315 winch.
Serial number is 016709T.
It looks very different on the inside than what I see on the EPC and in the service manual.
Should I disregard the looks and go with the looks?

[jdemaris]

OK, Trying to go through the crawler while I have it in the shop, so here goes another question...
My winch has been slipping in the hold position.
I got ready to take it apart, and although it looks like a 3315 winch, the housing is different -for one, no port for adjusting the brake band.

Is it a self-powered winch with it's own hydraulic pump - or does it use the old master cylinder up top with the big handle on it?

I was a Deere mechanic - but don't recall all the model numbers on those winches. Basically - on an older crawler - the winch was either Gearmatic, or Deere with the master cylinder, or Deere with the little internal Webster hydraulic pump. With the Deere winchs - there isn't any ajustment for the brake band that has anything to do with it holding. Only adjustment is for proper free-spool operation. Uses a very poorly built slave cylinder that tends to be a leaker. Same with the early hydro-clutch pressure plates that used a big diaphram (that's been obsolete for a long time). Deere sold changeover kits to get rid of the diaphram and install a plate that used a pisong and seals instead.

[squarede]

Looks like it has the replacement piston assembly, and that it is the leaky culprit.
So, I have it all apart and cleaned up -now just need to locate the seals, etc. to put it back together.
Thanks for the help.
Ray

[squarede]

OK, Parts are on the way to fix this thing.
I have what I think is one last question.
When looking at the manual, It says that when replacing the vee-packing that the lips should face toward the bottom of the bore. Can someone tell me what this means so that I don't pit it in the wrong way?
Thanks again,
Ray

[jdemaris]

OK, Parts are on the way to fix this thing.
I have what I think is one last question.
When looking at the manual, It says that when replacing the vee-packing that the lips should face toward the bottom of the bore. Can someone tell me what this means so that I don't pit it in the wrong way?
Thanks again,
Ray

It just means the lips point toward the oil pressure source - and not away from it. With the original packings in the winch pressure plate - I don't recall it making any difference since the packings weren't directional. But, may they've changed. And, maybe it's my memory is off a bit. I had to change over many of the winch pressure plates - from diaphram to piston-type pressure-plate.

The winch free-spool cylinder is another chronic leaker. By the time I left Deere, they still only used a piston and plain o-ring inside. Maybe it's been improved since then?

Also check the rotary fitting that can leak under pressure.

Most HD hydraulic cylinders use Chevron packings which DO point one-way. Of course, there's always the situation of a two-way cylinder. In that case, you usually point the seal lips toward the side that is pressurized the most. The seals do work both ways - but are energized by pressure and self-sealing in only one direction. One example is front loaders. The biggest concern is a loader that will stay up on its own and not settle down. So, the packings are usually pointed in the direction to accomodate that.

[squarede]

Thanks once again.
The rotary cylinder is what is leaking. I've ordered all new packing, o-rings and seals for that.
Do you mean the brake cylinder when you saw free-spool cylinder? I'm not sure what that is. If so, doesn't look like it is leaking.
There was a bearing race, a washer and back up ring missing in my winch.
I'm thinking that this caused too much end play on the replacement pistin and led to premature wear on the seals.
Or maybe it just wore out.
Have a great day,
Ray

[jdemaris]

Thanks once again.
The rotary cylinder is what is leaking. I've ordered all new packing, o-rings and seals for that.
Do you mean the brake cylinder when you saw free-spool cylinder? I'm not sure what that is. If so, doesn't look like it is leaking.
There was a bearing race, a washer and back up ring missing in my winch.
I'm thinking that this caused too much end play on the replacement pistin and led to premature wear on the seals.
Or maybe it just wore out.
Have a great day,
Ray

I guess I'm going a little brain-dead here. I have no idea what bearing race you're talking about. Maybe you've got a different model winch than I'm thinking about. My best recall is of the many 3325s used on 350s and 450s.

With the 3325 -

Brake slave cylinder has two heavy springs attached to it. The springs are what engages the brake. We replaced them often and Deere changed them many times. The piston is what pushes against those springs and lets the winch free-spool. If it leaks - you'll only see oil come out when free-spool is engaged.

The updated pressure plate has a big round piston with packings that ride against it. Also, there is a rotary/swivel fitting that allows hookup of the pressure hose to the rotating pressure plate - another spot that leaks.

The older winches were different - and I don't recall all the details. I know they did NOT use the rotary hookup valve I mentoined - but used a bunch of oil-feed tubes and seals, instead.

[squarede]

Definitely not brain dead, you've got it right on.
There is a bearing on the rotary fitting that your talking about that has a race on either side of it.
One of the races was missing.
I don't think that the brake piston is leaking, I had it on free-spool with the cover off
The only oil apparent was coming out of the bottom of the clutch housing.
This is what lead me to take the whole thing apart and discover the worn o-ring and packing in the replacement cylinder.
I'm fairly certain that the vee-packing was the culprit, but I guess I'll find out when I get it all together.
Thanks again,
Ray

[Sawyer 56]

Hi
I realize this is an old thread but I'm not up on posting on forums . Please feel free to move this where it needs to be. The thing I want to inform people about is the problem with the 3325 winch brake, I like many have been plagued by a poorly functioning winch brake for years. I found out that starting with Winch serial# 357765 John Deere changed the springs to a spring that is 1/2 coil shorter and a new brake piston which is about 1/16" shorter. The new springs are pt. # T70874 replacing old springs # T64562. The new piston is T73440. Nobody had any information if the 4 11/16 adjustment was still current so that was what I used. I tried the winch today and it seems to work as it should. Replacement 2 springs and piston $265

[Jim B]

Welcome to the Board.

Thanks for passing the info on, definitely something to be considered if a winch is giving a problem.
Jim