Geyser of hydraulic fluid from my 350

[gcgrant]

I have an early model 350 with a 6 way blade. Today the temperature was about -10C or around 12F. When I started it up I was surprised to have a geyser of hydraulic fluid come from the hydraulic reservoir! Out of the top where there is a nipple like projection, which I think is a vent.
The fluid was quite milky colored and I have to assume has water in it.
Since it is quite a bit below freezing, is it possible that water in the fluid is causing the problem? Anyone with any suggestions to remedy this?
How easy is it to drain the system and refill with fresh fluid?
Thanks in advance.............George

[jdemaris]

I have an early model 350 with a 6 way blade. Today the temperature was about -10C or around 12F. When I started it up I was surprised to have a geyser of hydraulic fluid come from the hydraulic reservoir! Out of the top where there is a nipple like projection, which I think is a vent.
The fluid was quite milky colored and I have to assume has water in it.
Since it is quite a bit below freezing, is it possible that water in the fluid is causing the problem? Anyone with any suggestions to remedy this?
How easy is it to drain the system and refill with fresh fluid?
Thanks in advance.............George

That is NOT a vent. It is the hydraulic filter restriction indicator. Your oil it too thick and you probably broke it. Very common in 1010s, 2010s, 350s, and 450s used in the cold. Hyguard from Deere is not suitable in cold weather.

That indicator is there to let you know when pressure is too high in the hydraulic return filter. That happens from oil too thick or a filter that is plugged. Deere had many problems in the past and finally came out with two fixes. #1 was a new filter that lets more oil pass, and #2 was Winter Grade Hyguard for cold weater.

I'm surprised you didn't blow your filter off - but maybe you did - besides blowing the indicator. You need to pull it apart and fix, also see if your filter is still there in one piece, and put in some oil NO thicker than 10W. When all done, when first starting - don't rev above idle speed. Just let it sit there and idle until you see that indicator stop bouncing up and down (when the oil warms a little).

[gcgrant]

I knew someone would know exactly what was happening.
I've had the machine for a couple of years and this is the first hydraulic problem I've had. It only gets worked about 50hrs/yr. and most of that is in the winter pushing snow. I would assume the water in the fluid would be condensation and would probably not pass through the filter very well below freezing.
How often should the fluid and or the filter be changed?
George

[jdemaris]

I tired to return you private email and it's doesn't seem to be working. So, here's the same reply.

Is this the same parts breakdown you've been looking at?

[Tigerhaze]

That is NOT a vent. It is the hydraulic filter restriction indicator. Your oil it too thick and you probably broke it. Very common in 1010s, 2010s, 350s, and 450s used in the cold. Hyguard from Deere is not suitable in cold weather.

When all done, when first starting - don't rev above idle speed. Just let it sit there and idle until you see that indicator stop bouncing up and down (when the oil warms a little).

OK John, I have a question for you. I have a 2010 crawler loader, and last summer I pulled the loader hydraulic resevoir filter assembly(u-shaped handle). The fluid was milky from condensate so I changed it. At the same time I also changed the large (element) and small (mesh) filters as well as the o-rings in the order shown in the parts manual. The spring seemed to be in good shape, and when I installed the filters I cleaned the restriction indicator plunger as well and checked that I could move it when pressed.

The loader hydraulics operate fine, but I have never noticed the indicator needle move or bounce. If fluid was bypassing, wouldn't the indicator be pushed to the "up" position? Do I need to check the o-rings on the filters again?

[jdemaris]

The loader hydraulics operate fine, but I have never noticed the indicator needle move or bounce. If fluid was bypassing, wouldn't the indicator be pushed to the "up" position? Do I need to check the o-rings on the filters again?

Something doesn't sound right unless you've got very thin hydraulic oil - or very warm weather. That indicator responds to pressure in the filter. All it takes is around 10 PSI to make it jump up and down. With a clean filter and normal grade Hyguard (20W) that pin will jump up and down when first starting a machine at temps around 40F and below - until the oil warms up a bit.

If your's isn't moving - either you have no pressure inside the filter, or the filter fell off, or - the pin can't move for some reason.

[Tigerhaze]

Thanks JDemaris-

I am pretty sure the filters didn't come off because there is one long bolt through both of them into the cap that I wouldn't think would fall out (I made sure it was snug). Also the indicator plunger and spring was free ( a little stiff, but free).

I am betting it is the o-rings- there were several of slightly varying diameters but similar thickness and I probably got them out of order. Maybe it isn't building up pressure because of that. Hopefully I don't have more water in there

[gcgrant]

That is the same diagram that I have in my manual, although mine says nothing about a restriction indicator. I assume that the parts 5-10 are what make up the indicator. My machine has none of that. There is no left over parts in the reservoir, no metal on the magnetic plug. In my parts book it looks like there is a couple of different reservoir caps (4), as you can see from my pic, I have no (3) pipe plug.
When they do blow does it eject the whole indicator mechanism out?
Would it make any sense to plug the hole with a bolt from the inside, and just make sure you did change the filter every 50 hrs or so?


[/img]

[jdemaris]

. My machine has none of that.

Yeah, but I can see very clearly in your photo that it DID have one, and . . . it had been hammering up and down a lot. See the marks in the housing with the stop-pin was hitting?

That device serves two purposes:

#1 it let's you know that the something's wrong and you need to slow the engine down until the oil gets warm or change the fitler.

#2 it is also a filter bypass and allows the oil to bypass the filter when necessary. If there's too much restriction - something HAS to give. If nothing can give, the pump blows up.

[jdemaris]

Thanks JDemaris-

I am pretty sure the filters didn't come off because there is one long bolt through both of them into the cap that I wouldn't think would fall out

If you want to do a check, there should be a small pipe plug on top. You can stick a low pressure gauge in, start the machine, rev up the engine, and see if there's any pressure. If you're getting anything over 5-10 PSI, then the indicator is not working. Keep mind that the indicator is also a filter-bypass valve and gives the oil somewhere to go when too thick. Otherwise excess pressure will blow something up - usually the filter.

I'll add that those filters fall often very often. They cannot be tightened enough to stay on unless the long steel bushing is still there. It goes inside the filter and allows you to tighten that bolt without crushing the filter cartridge. Otherwise, tightening the bolt does nothing. You cannot get anywhere near 30 foot-pounds of torque on that bolt without the bushing in place - the filter will just cave. That bushing often gets chucked because it's difficult to line up and get the long bolt in. Without that bushing, the filter will never stay on. I suspect many 350s do not have the filter on and the owner's don't know it. When servicing those machines, I'd often find the filter laying at the bottom of the tank.

Here's text from the Deere manual on the subject:

"Should the micronic filter become plugged, a valve at the top of the reservoir allows oil to bypass the filter and re-enter the reservoir.
As the valve/pin rises to allow oil to by-pass the filter, an indicator on the outside of the reservoir shows the operator that the filter element is plugged and should be replaced.
To prevent damgage to the hydraulic system, it is extremely important that the filtering system be serviced as soon as the indicator indicates a dirty filter. "

I'll add that Deere had many problems not just caused by a dirty filter. Original formula Hyguard was too thick for the original Deere filter element. So, Deere subbed it to a bigger micron filter. Even with that, regular grade Hyguard will make it jump like crazy until the oil gets warm, and winter-grade Hyguard, or some other 10W ought to be used in cold weather.

[gcgrant]

Thanks jdemaris,
I thought the photo would be worth a lot of words!
I will strive to get all the parts and put it back together as Mother Deere intended it to be!
I am continually amazed at how helpful this site can be, especially for us non pros.
........George......

[Tigerhaze]

Thanks JDemaris-

I did have the bushing still when I reinstalled the bolt- I was fortunate to have all the parts. It is easy enough to pull the cap again, so maybe I'll do so. We have been having really cold weather here so if there is condensate I don't want to blow something frozen up!

It's going to be 60+ degrees the next couple of days so I'll be able to really check it out.

[jdemaris]

Thanks JDemaris-

I did have the bushing still when I reinstalled the bolt- I was fortunate to have all the parts. It is easy enough to pull the cap again, so maybe I'll do so. We have been having really cold weather here so if there is condensate I don't want to blow something frozen up!

It's going to be 60+ degrees the next couple of days so I'll be able to really check it out.

I'm not even sure what oil is in my crawler, but it's probably regular grade Hyguard (20W). When I start it in 30-40 degree F weather, that indicator jumps all over the place unless I idle down the engine. So, on cold starts, I let the engine run at idle for 10-15 minutes until the oil heats up enough I can rev the engine up without that indicator going crazy.