looking for a backhoe attachment

[race_2222]

Doesn't have to be John Deere. Could also be a small 3 pt hitch attachment in which I could convert. Only need it for my own use so doesn't have to be fancy. Would prefer to be in the midwest. Thanks

[jdemaris]

Doesn't have to be John Deere. Could also be a small 3 pt hitch attachment in which I could convert. Only need it for my own use so doesn't have to be fancy. Would prefer to be in the midwest. Thanks

I've got a nice backhoe setup that was custom made for a 350 dozer. But, I'm not in the mid-west, I'm in New York. The guy had a fabrication shop custom build a heavy set of mounts to adapt an Allis Chalmers Mark V backhoe (Henry or Davis) to his 350 outside-blade dozer. When I bought the entire setup, I thought the mounts were factory made by Deere but later found out they are not and match the Allis Chalmers hoe. Look similar to OEM Deere mounts but measure different. I might sell the whole works, or . . . might keep the hoe, and then have no use for those mounts. Might be useful for someone out there who has a 350 dozer. I don't know if outside or inside blade makes a difference with some of the mounting parts. The pair of mounts bolt directly to any 350 final drive, but there are also long heavy support bars that run to the mid of the crawler and attach to the track-frames. I bought this setup thinking the hoe would fit my Deere 1010 crawler that already had the Deere rear mounts. Found out later it won't.
They measure: Allis Chalmers Mark IV or V Henry hoe - Hitch mount measures - with 1 1/2”
pins - 20” top to bottom, center to center. Width is 21” center to center with a 1” slot.
Factory made Deere toolbar used on 1010s, 2010s, 350s, 450s etc. is:
17 1/8” center to center from top to bottom of 1” pins. Width is 27” center to center with
a 1” slot.

[Lavoy]

I know of a truck that will be out John's way in a month of so, and will be coming back through Iowa if that is any help.
Lavoy

[race_2222]

My machine is a bucket dozer so not sure about the mounts. I would think they would work. Maybe if you could take a better picture of just one mount. I may be interested in the set up if we can get together on a price and work out a deal with the trucking from Lavoy. How big is the bucket? You can send me a private email at lorinkurth@hotmail.com with asking prices.
Thanks,
Lorin

[race_2222]

Well evidently JDEMARIS decided he didn't want to part with his backhoe. I never heard from him again. Any way I found a hoe but am having problems. It is a Wain Roy hoe model 1442 serial # 12980. It has a caterpillar decals on it but not sure if thats right. After adapting the mounting brackets to fit my 350, and replacing some hoses, I could not wait to try it out. Unfortunatley I cannot get any of the hydraulics to work. Now before you ask, Yes my dozer had a backhoe attachment on it at one time and the hoses were there. Thinking maybe I had them hooked up wrong, I switched them and then the motor would not run, telling me that they were right the first time. I'm wandering if its the valve body on the backhoe?? When I crack open a line and move the lever- no pressure. Seems to build alot of pressure though on the hoses coming from the crawler. Any one have any ideas???????? I really need to get this up and running.

[roadbuilder]

are you using quick disconnect fittings? I've had these go bad and had the the same type of symptom. If so try removing them. Remember any part of attachment that isn't down has stored energy and will come down if lines are opened. Also did prior owner have shut off valves before the attach. valvebody to keep oil in attachment when not in use. May be missing handles. Easy to overlook but cheaper than anything else.

[jdemaris]

Well evidently JDEMARIS decided he didn't want to part with his backhoe. I never heard from him again.

I've been frequenting this forum all along and haven't gone anywhere. Neither has the backhoe I mentioned earier. I wasn't anxious then or now to sell, i.e. I don't care either way. It is for sale if somebody wants it. I just assume distance is an issue with somebody out as far from New York as you are. I never heard from you again, either - and I assume you're more axious to complete this project on your machine, then I am.

In regard to your hoe, you have to make sure first - that it's an open center hoe, and not a closed center. Otherwise, you're going to blow your hydraulic pump to pieces. I've seen it happen many times.

Your Deere crawler has an open-center system. That means that oil flows all the time and cannot be blocked. If you do anything, anywhere that blocks that open center flow- your pump blows up. That includes tapping into the system in a wrong way, or hooking to an incorrect backhoe.
I know you said you already have hoe hoses on the crawler. What exactly are they hooked up to? Some machines (not usually Deere) use manual flow diverters with a push-pull knob. Deere usually has a loader control valve with an integral extra port for the hoe and it has to be activated. And, if it gets activated with those two big lines not joined together in someway, again - your pump will blow to pieces.

[race_2222]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I was interested in your hoe, If you read my reply, I asked for a price and gave you my personel email. But thats water under the bridge. Yes I am familiar with open center v.s. closed center as I read in my JD manuals. My hoses have a male end and a female end and when you have nothing attached, those hoses have to be connected or else like you say will damage the pump. I would think that if the hoe was closed center, the motor would not run or would lumber like it does when hoses not hooked up. If the hoses aren't hooked up it won't even start. The backhoe also had a male and a female ends on its hookup. So I figured it too was a open center.
I put on new quick connectors on all 4 hoses because I couldn't fine the right ones to match so I ended up buying a set. It is circulating fluid because because I've had to dump in around 5 gal to fill the lines and cylinders so it went somewhere. My level is good in the window however there is alot of air in it, looks foamy. When I got it, the hoe hoses had an extra hose coming off of them and going to nothing. The owner thought that they had an extra resevoir attached to the side or possibly they were for an extra attachment of some sort. I removed them.
This 350 has the extra control lever next to the loader control, don't see any valve anywhere. Could it be that I need to find the right control valve on the hoe for my system? Is there an easy way to tell the diference?

[jdemaris]

. The backhoe also had a male and a female ends on its hookup. So I figured it too was a open center.

The hoe having a male and a female end means nothing. A closed-center hoe has polarity, just as an open center hoe does. Either sytle has one pressure hookup and one return hook-up. The difference is - with an open center hoe - oil always flows freely into the pressure hose and back out of the return hose and can never be blocked. With a closed-center hoe - oil going into the pressure hose is completetly block off all the time - e.g. it is dead-headed. So, if it gets hooked to a Deere crawler, the pump is pumping oil that has NO place to go. So, either the engine stalls, a hose blows, or the hydraulic pump explodes. I've got a a bucket of brand new Cessna pumps that people blew up over the years. Brand new, out of the box - only used for a few seconds and then the center-housing blown to pieces. Every one of them were from people attempting to add hydraulics to their crawlers and hooking things wrong, or trying to use closed-center attachments.

With Deere crawlers - loaders and some dozers come factory equipped with an extra unused valve spool in the control valve stack. The extra valve can be used for a remote aux, a rear ripper, log fork, or whatever.
Can also be used for a backhoe that does not require a huge amount of oil flow.

I don't know what your crawler has on it already, but in theory, it goes like this. Your hydraulic pump must have a continous loop connecting the outlet of the pump to the inlet of the pump. No matter what is stuck in series with this loop, it cannot stop the flow of oil - with NO exceptions.
When your machine has a three spool control valve - when in neutral all valves allow oil to run through. In order to use this flow of oil to pressurize a cylinder somewhere, it must be rerouted, i.e. "diverted." This happens whenever you move one of those valve spools. It stops the normal flow path, and sends it another direction. When this happens, the cylinder begins to fill with oil and when it moves to it's final posistion, that oil can still flow back to the pump with no obstructions. For example. You hit the lever and raise the blade or front bucket. As it goes up, oil flow is filling the cylinders allowing flow. When it comes to the end of it's travel, the emergency relief valve cracks open so oil can keep flowing back to the pump. You can't do this very long since it is restricting flow and heating up the oil.

I'm being long winded here, but I'm doing so since I don't know the extent of your knowledge.

No matter what you add to your hydraulics, it has to be in-line with the outlet to inlet loop - there is no other way. And, it always has to give the oil a place to go. If you don't, it will make its own by breaking something.

That is the sort of "magic" with closed center systems. You can tap in anywhere since there is NO flow of oil when nothing is being used. Close center allows parallel hookups, but open center only allows series hookups.

If your crawler does NOT have an extra valve already, then you need to install an extra diverter valve. Many other makes of backhoes have them OEM. On my Ford backhoe, I cannot use the front loader and backhoe at the same time. I have a manual diverter I have to push in for the loader, or pull out for the backhoe to work. This is a manual diverter. Other machines have automatic "priortiy" type diverters.

Back to the Deere. Your existing stack of valves is just a stack of manual divereters called different name.