450c quit, now smokes
450c quit, now smokes
Hi everyone. Can someone tell me what this wire is for/to. It goes to a cluster plug behind the gauge panel.
I was moving some dirt on Saturday and my machine sputtered and died. When i turn the key to start I'm getting smoke at the wire on the injector. At the same time the amp gauge bounces 90 degrees to bottom negative and positive.
Thanks for your help. Matt
1975ish 450c loader
I was moving some dirt on Saturday and my machine sputtered and died. When i turn the key to start I'm getting smoke at the wire on the injector. At the same time the amp gauge bounces 90 degrees to bottom negative and positive.
Thanks for your help. Matt
1975ish 450c loader
Thanks for the reply, Matt. So if I take that wire off, what can I expect. Any guesses. And would the short be a reason for the loader to die? The tractor was my father's and I don't know that much about fixing it. I searched for a broken wire behind the gauge with no luck. I wasn't able to get the gauge panel separated from the tractor as I couldn't get the wire harness apart. I didn't want to break it and have to fix that too. Thanks again. Matt
I'll look at the book tonight. I don't remember off hand. I have had issues with the wiring harnesses on these old crawlers shorting out on the back of the block. If memory serves me when power is supplied to that solenoid it allows fuel to the injectors. when you turn the key off it kills the solenoid thus killing the motor. When these solenoids fail I believe you just pull out the spool and then shut off the motor by throttling it all the way down. Again, never did it so this is just taking an educated guess.
I'm sure someone on here can set me straight. Otherwise I'll take a look at an old service maunal tonight and let you know tomorrow.
I'm sure someone on here can set me straight. Otherwise I'll take a look at an old service maunal tonight and let you know tomorrow.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Well, if the wire is smoking right at the injector pump, then the coil for the fuel shut-off solenoid has shorted out internally and you need a new solenoid.
If you just yank the wire off, that will stop the wire smoking but the machine still won't run. That solenoid pulls on the fuel feed rod to let fuel pass into the injector pump.
I don't know if there's a workaround trick for replacing the solenoid or not. You'd have to have something to pull and push that rod to open and close the fuel feed in order to be able to start and stop the engine.
later!
Stan
Well, if the wire is smoking right at the injector pump, then the coil for the fuel shut-off solenoid has shorted out internally and you need a new solenoid.
If you just yank the wire off, that will stop the wire smoking but the machine still won't run. That solenoid pulls on the fuel feed rod to let fuel pass into the injector pump.
I don't know if there's a workaround trick for replacing the solenoid or not. You'd have to have something to pull and push that rod to open and close the fuel feed in order to be able to start and stop the engine.
later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Thanks again for the replies, Matt and Stan. So is there any way you guys could point me in the direction of the fuel shut-off solenoid? I'm not totally new to this tractor, but don't go bragging about my diesel engine ability. I've put a new starter and fuel pump on and other minor repairs, but I don't think I know where the fuel shut-off is located. Thanks in advance. Matt
Hi Ken. Thanks for your input also. Could you look at this image and tell me if I have things labeled right? Is the solenoid the block on top where the wire is connected. Do I have to remove the solenoid to get the spool out? And will it come off in one piece or is something going to drop out of it. I'm good at putting things back together as long as I see how they came apart. Thanks again for everyone's help. Matt
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5229/solenoidl.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5229/solenoidl.jpg
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
Yes, that is different from the units I've had experience with fried solenoids. Other pump models have the solenoid outside the pump body; I suppose for easier replacement when they go bad.
With those, it's a simple matter of unscrewing the solenoid coil, removing the spool, and putting the coil (which plugs the hole back up) back on. You can then start the machine and get it back to the barn.
Stopping it requires lowering the idle screw to the point it quits. You then have what amounts to an old fashioned pump where you have to lift the throttle lever to get the thing started, and can stop it by just bottoming out the lever.
This is supposed to be a 'temporary measure', meaning one gets a new coil ASAP and then puts everything back to 'normal'. I've seen many a machine where this became a 'permanent situation', including that 68 JD350 I once had. I got it with this 'temporary measure' in place, and left it that way, actually!
This pump you have really needs to have a proper repair done to it. I'd not want to pop the cover and try the jury rig in the field. I'd remove the pump and get it fixed properly.
later!
Stan
Yes, that is different from the units I've had experience with fried solenoids. Other pump models have the solenoid outside the pump body; I suppose for easier replacement when they go bad.
With those, it's a simple matter of unscrewing the solenoid coil, removing the spool, and putting the coil (which plugs the hole back up) back on. You can then start the machine and get it back to the barn.
Stopping it requires lowering the idle screw to the point it quits. You then have what amounts to an old fashioned pump where you have to lift the throttle lever to get the thing started, and can stop it by just bottoming out the lever.
This is supposed to be a 'temporary measure', meaning one gets a new coil ASAP and then puts everything back to 'normal'. I've seen many a machine where this became a 'permanent situation', including that 68 JD350 I once had. I got it with this 'temporary measure' in place, and left it that way, actually!
This pump you have really needs to have a proper repair done to it. I'd not want to pop the cover and try the jury rig in the field. I'd remove the pump and get it fixed properly.
later!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Thanks again Stan and others for your time on this. So as I see it, I need to remove the whole pump and take it to a shop to have it repaired. I was trying to find an exploded view of my pump to see the inner workings of it, but can't seem to fine any. I'll keep looking though. I have read about the governor ring or something coming apart inside the pump. Would it be wise to have that reworked at the same time? Does that sound like a complete rebuild of the pump? I also read costs are in the $700 range. Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll be back for more help. Matt
Hi again guys. Looking through some papers I have on the loader, I found the pump number. It is a Roosa master JDB435MD. Then I have a 2802. Not sure if that goes with the first number. One image to look at if you would. I did find an exploded view of a Roosa, but not my model so I'll stick to learning about the one I have. Thanks Again. Hope I'm not cutting into any farming time out east. Matt
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9776/21692589.jpg
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9776/21692589.jpg
-
- 420 crawler
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:37 am
- Location: Southern Ohio
i can hook you up with a manual......
where are you located?
if you are halfway mechanical, you can fix this thing.......
i'm getting ready to go back in to mine (to fix things i over-looked) and i'll try to take good pictures...
there are some other good threads on here, if you look around......i'll try to post them up for you...
where are you located?
if you are halfway mechanical, you can fix this thing.......
i'm getting ready to go back in to mine (to fix things i over-looked) and i'll try to take good pictures...
there are some other good threads on here, if you look around......i'll try to post them up for you...
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