450 engine clutch

[tjdub]

I have a 1967 450 with HLR transmission.

The engine clutch works fine to disengage movement, but it does not seem to work very well for engaging the PTO or shifting between gear ranges. This is easy enough to work around by just turning the engine off first, but what is really broken here? Am I damaging anything by running it like this?

[Lavoy]

If you have an HLR, I assume it is like the 2010 and you are not using the engine clutch, it is only for starting in cold weather and has a disengagement lever. When you push in the clutch pedal, you just just splitting the clutch packs in the trans, nothing to do with the engine clutch. If I guesses wrong, someone correct me please.
Lavoy

[tjdub]

When you push in the clutch pedal, you just just splitting the clutch packs in the trans, nothing to do with the engine clutch. If I guesses wrong, someone correct me please.

Sorry, I'm just using the wrong term then. I was just referring to the foot clutch.

I don't know if there's a lever to disengage the transmission completely or not, but I haven't noticed it if there is. It would be handy I'm sure. I don't think my powershift 4020 would ever start in the winter without that feature.

[Tigerhaze]

TJDub-

The disconnect lever that Lavoy mentioned is in the left floorboard of my 2010 crawler, which also has a H-L-R. It is an upside-down "L"-shaped handle that pulls up and locks into the floorboard. When engaged, this lever disconnects the transmission from the engine flywheel and allows the engine to turn over much more rapidly due to decreased resistance. However the loader hydraulics are also disconnected (because the transmission also drives the Cessna pump from the PTO), so is only used for initial starting.

I don't know if the 450 has that lever or if it is in the same spot, but I use it even in warm weather situations because my engine is pretty worn and hard to start.

The gaer selector in my 2010 is hard to shift- I believe it "grinds" if your engine RPM is high. You may want to "throttle down" when trying to shift it and I think you want the H-L-R in the neutral position. I am not sure the clutch pedal made any difference in this regard. I couldn't tell you for sure because I haven't shifted it in years- I basically keep the gear selector in the "1-2" position and do forward speed increases by using the high and low range of the H-L-R instead. My undercarriage is too worn to be running it in the higher road gears- I learned that the hard way with a slipped track.

let us know if this helped or if you have additional questions

[DBCSteve]

I had a similar problem with my 450C initially, and learned to push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor to shift among the four forward gears while the engine is running. You might have a simple clutch linkage adjustment that could fix the problem (had that problem and solution on my Ford 1910).

BTW -- unlike the initial 450, the 450C has both the transmission and HLR levers to the left of the seat as you face forward (I think the initial 450 has the HLR on the center floor).

Hope this helps.

[JWB Contracting]

I believe the 450 crawler cluch is very similar to the 2010, except that the cluch pedal when slightly depressed activates / deactivates the HLR transmission while depressing it fully activates the main dry cluch behind the motor.

Get your self a book, the adjustment is easy to make.

This is the idential system up to the 450E machines and does not cause much trouble.

[tjdub]

Well, decided to try get my clutch working, but I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the service manual instructions for adjusting it. It seems like a simple 2 step procedure, but I'm hung up on what it actually means by free play. Normally , I take this to mean actual free play in clutch pedal, but on this crawler, it doesn't seem like I can get any real free play in the pedal at all due to the spring (14 in the schematic) being under tension no matter what how far back the fork (12) is from the pinion carrier ( 8 ). Does free freeplay here mean that there should be 3 3/4" of motion on the pedal before the fork hits the pinion carrier? If so, then my clutch must be very much shot because pushing the clutch to the floor doesn't even seem to get the thrust bearing to hit the pressure plate. I'm afraid to overtighted this because as I mentioned earlier, a non-working clutch isn't that big of a deal to me. A broken, burning, flying to pieces clutch is another matter entirely

[tjdub]

You are correct in saying 3-3/4" travel before brg. touches pressure plate fingers.

Thanks Steve.

I guess that's exactly what I was asking for. I didn't know if free-play was defined by pedal movement required to move the throwout bearing into the pressure plate fingers or the pedal movement required to move the forks into the carrier that the throwout bearing rides on. Both the throughout bearing carrier and the pedal itself have their own individual return springs, so what was meant by free-play was not clear to me since there really isn't any true free-play anywhere since everything is always riding on spring tension. I was just a bit paranoid about over-tightening a clutch, because I've been down that road before. It would feel pretty stupid if I had to pull the motor to replace a clutch when I didn't even need the clutch to work in the first place

I will try adjusting it again one of these days and post back.