I pulled the trigger on a 2000 JD450B yesterday!

[Al Swearengen]

First post! Nice place y'all got here!

It took a while to find the right one, but I think I got me a good 'ern! It has 3040 on the clock and looks to be 'bout ready to have the pins turned (never been turned) and the sprockets replaced. This is the only thing that I can find that it needs to have done in the near future. 6-way, ROPS, sweeps, nice 5-point ripper bar with three shanks, brush rake included.

I'd rented a D6N in the past, as well as a D4 to accomplish all my big work, but thought this to be the perfect maintainance dozer for the years to come.

It has the Operators Manual behind the seat, but I didn't get a service or parts manual with it...anybody got a line on those?

Am I gonna be able to pull the tracks myself with no specialized tools besides a grinder, punch, and sledge?

I now submit this post to the masters of dirt...

Thanks!

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Al- welcome to the board.

I think you will find that it is nearly as expensive for labor to turn pins and bushings than it is to get new track for the 450s. I will let someone else confirm that, but you will want to keep that in mind before you have them turned.

Also, you mention pulling the track. You should be able to split the tracks with a punch and sledge- not sure why you would need a grinder. if the master pins are stuck you may need to use a penetrating oil like PB blaster to get them free. If the master pins are really stuck you may need to use a rosebud tip on a torch, or cut the master pin with the torch if welded in place. Confirm that you can get the master pins before doing so.

There are a number of posts on this site for finding manuals. The parts manual is available online at no charge from the JD website as well as for sale. The service and parts manuals can be ordered as a hardcopy, CD or download. You can also sometimes find manuals on auction sites like Epay.

[Al Swearengen]

Hi Al- welcome to the board.

I think you will find that it is nearly as expensive for labor to turn pins and bushings than it is to get new track for the 450s. I will let someone else confirm that, but you will want to keep that in mind before you have them turned.

Also, you mention pulling the track. You should be able to split the tracks with a punch and sledge- not sure why you would need a grinder. if the master pins are stuck you may need to use a penetrating oil like PB blaster to get them free. If the master pins are really stuck you may need to use a rosebud tip on a torch, or cut the master pin with the torch if welded in place. Confirm that you can get the master pins before doing so.

There are a number of posts on this site for finding manuals. The parts manual is available online at no charge from the JD website as well as for sale. The service and parts manuals can be ordered as a hardcopy, CD or download. You can also sometimes find manuals on auction sites like Epay.

Thanks for the howdy! New tracks? Wow...I'd never even considered that, I thought a turning would be par for the course! You mentioned a master pin? Also news to me! How do you differentiate the master pin from the others?

[Tigerhaze]

Usually it is least costly to buy new tracks locally because of their weight for shipping. New tracks can be found at local dealers such as Heavyquip or Berco, although I haven't checked them for your specific application.

http://www.heavyquip.com/locations.htm
http://www.bercoamerica.com/t-locations.aspx

I am not sure if Lavoy carries new tracks (he is the site administrator and sells parts as well as turns pins and bushings). he is located in eastern ND, so may not be economical if you are on the coasts.

The master pin generally has a dimple but can be hard to see if dirty. Look for the one pin that looks different than the others. I think you can search for posts on here about 450 pins to get a better idea of what to look for.

FYI, a 450B dozer would be older than 2000. I think they were made from 1970 through 1976. Here is the serial number ranges for those years of 450Bs.

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=2415

[Al Swearengen]

Usually it is least costly to buy new tracks locally because of their weight for shipping. New tracks can be found at local dealers such as Heavyquip or Berco, although I haven't checked them for your specific application.

http://www.heavyquip.com/locations.htm
http://www.bercoamerica.com/t-locations.aspx

I am not sure if Lavoy carries new tracks (he is the site administrator and sells parts as well as turns pins and bushings). he is located in eastern ND, so may not be economical if you are on the coasts.

The master pin generally has a dimple but can be hard to see if dirty. Look for the one pin that looks different than the others. I think you can search for posts on here about 450 pins to get a better idea of what to look for.

FYI, a 450B dozer would be older than 2000. I think they were made from 1970 through 1976. Here is the serial number ranges for those years of 450Bs.

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=2415

Thank you for the info. Yes. I'm on the "left" coast, Central Valley.

I too questioned the year as I thought the newer ones had sloping hoods. But, the paperwork was with the operators manual behind the seat...it was delivered in May '09.

It's a "series IV"...what's that refer too?

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Deere has a re-life program on 350's and 450's (and probably the other models as well).

What they do is ship old machines back to the 'other side' of the factory and completely tear them down to every individual part. Each part is then checked for being OK to re-use, or junked and replaced with new.

The machine is then re-assembled as an 'equal-to-new' unit and shipped back out. So, it *is* possible to have an old model that has a much later build year associated with it.

About three years ago, I was looking into getting a 'brand-new' 350B from the program, but decided against spending so much money at that time.

later!

Stan

[MattE]

Al

Last time I checked into it it was only slightly cheaper to have the bushings turned than to replace the chain. Undercarriage parts for these little crawlers have come down significantly with the korean made parts. My local JD dealer will beat anyone's prices for aftermarket undercarriages and ships everything free. So I buy all my parts from them. Just some thing to think about.

As mentioned before the master pin will have a dimple almost as if it has been drilled with a center drill. Some times if your chains are worn it does help to grind down the mushroomed material around the pin. I always heat them up, just saves on sledgehammer work.

[Al Swearengen]

Al

Last time I checked into it it was only slightly cheaper to have the bushings turned than to replace the chain. Undercarriage parts for these little crawlers have come down significantly with the korean made parts. My local JD dealer will beat anyone's prices for aftermarket undercarriages and ships everything free. So I buy all my parts from them. Just some thing to think about.

As mentioned before the master pin will have a dimple almost as if it has been drilled with a center drill. Some times if your chains are worn it does help to grind down the mushroomed material around the pin. I always heat them up, just saves on sledgehammer work.

Thanks Matt. I'd have never guessed the dealer would be price effective! When I get back up the hill I will look for the master pin. I sure need a service manual!
You guys are great, thank you for all your replies so far!

[Al Swearengen]

FYI, a 450B dozer would be older than 2000. I think they were made from 1970 through 1976. Here is the serial number ranges for those years of 450Bs.

STUPID ME! I am so sorry! It's a 450 G series IV!

My ol' brain wasn't clickin' on all cylinders!

Much similar to this:

http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/fronten ... status=all

[Jack-the-Ripper]

Am I gonna be able to pull the tracks myself with no specialized tools besides a grinder, punch, and sledge?

I've recently bought Korean rails and sprockets for my 450 at about $2300 (excluding bolts and nuts) from my specialty dealer, "Trackman," who confirmed it would be that much or more to turn the pins and bushings. I can't see paying more for domestic for us hobby users. If you can wait, your local/regional supplier/dealer can usually combine your order with their routine stock shipments and avoid extra shipping charges. I chose to trailer them 90 miles home on an ordinary two wheel flat trailer behind my car where, although heavy (800#?) they rode like a dream.

You will find the rails awkward to move; I found my Case 580 backhoe very handy. You could probably heft them by hand with the help of a couple of friends, particularly if sliding them on plywood rather than dirt. Its gonna be hard and dangerous unloading and uncoiling the new ones. (How do other people do this?) The new links will be stiff and should be all straightened out before you install them and try to couple the ends. A come-a-long will be helpful for installing the rail and pulling the ends together. Use pry bars to straighten the links once on the machine, or the ends won't reach.

Be sure to install all four of the beveled washers, two on each side of the master link, whose pin should be liberally greased before installation, and maybe set in the freezer, too, to ease driving it in a bit. The washers are installed with their small diameters together, and the large diameters set against the recess in the rails, and will be awkward to get in as you slide the links together as they are meant to have some springy tension against each other. Put one in each link recess (four per rail) and then tap the master links together with a hammer (grease should help to hold them in place during assembly and try not to drop them in the dirt). Their purpose is to keep grit out of the greased pin and bushing. The pin is a shrink fit and should be slightly larger than the hole in the link but slip easily into the bushing. If it seems impossible to start, it should be no more than about .010 inch oversized (On my Komatsu, I once had to ream the link holes as they were .035 smaller than the pin).

As for tools: Large hammers and pry bars. With a lot of wooden blocks you can raise the dozer using the blade and ripper. Be sure to block them as well for safety at their extreme ends/sides to avoid it being tipsy after you have supported the tractor's chassis. A 1" air impact wrench can be very handy for removing the grouzer plates before removing the old rails (it requires a special air hose larger than the normal 3/8"). Be sure to use only (black) impact style sockets, extensions and angle-joints as your regular sockets will likely break under the force of the large impact wrench. Although a 1/2" air impact driver will be handy for reinstalling the plates after the new rail (chain) is installed on the machine, it will most likely not have enough torque to remove the old bolts. You should grind the end of your impact socket flat to assure that it sits down all the way on the bolt heads or it will jump off and strip their corners. The solution for that, then, is to torch them off. If so, start the cutting torch on the top corner of the bolt head and move down to the base of the head when it is ready for the cutting oxygen, as this quickens the preheating for the cutting. Try not to gouge the plate. You'll probably have to grind the torch slag in order to knock the plate off of the remains of the bolt and nut which will remain in the rail. You can reuse the bolts and nuts that you haven't torched but must chase all the threads (well over 500) or buy all new ones, saving lots of frustration, for about $1 a pair. You'll most likely need a 12 point box end wrench for holding the square nut, as the open end is usually too wide to fit within the rail opening. I think Trackman had special wrenches made. I also used square bar or flat stock on each side of the nuts, as appropriate, when a wrench just wouldn't work. Hex nuts are a no-brainer. Be careful of your hands and teeth when holding the nuts while using the impact as the wrench can swing or fly off violently.

A good punch for the master pin remove/install will look like a t-handle. Put one end of the handle on the pin, whack on the other end. Hold the "tee" by its "leg" to keep the holding hand away from the "area of opportunity" defined by all the places the sledge can go if it misses its mark on the "handle" punch! This procedure is actually a "concerto" for four hands. The extra hands are also helpful when removing the plates.

I'm not sure if it matters which way the new rail is installed. My service book shows the wide end of each link facing forward on the top of the track loop. The grouzers only go on the rail one way. I hope that helps a bit.

Ralph

[DBCSteve]

I agree with Jack-the-ripper's experience in putting in the master pin. I put mine in the freezer overnight, and liberally greased the washers to hold 'em in place while I lined up the links and pounded in the master pin.

Since the original poster is from the great Central Valley (me too), I got a great price on Berco rails, pads, bolts and sprockets from their Woodland office. My dozer is located at the ranch near Jackson, about 90 miles away, and I hauled everything in a single axle trailer. No problems. It helped to use a backhoe to drag the tracks around to the right position after taking the old tracks off. Search in this forum and you'll find a link to pictures of replacing tracks on my 450C. Maybe not much different than replacing tracks on a newer 450?

As with others, cost of labor to turn or replace pins and bushings is only $100-200 less than new rails.

[gerald]

Dbcsteave im going to weld my pins on the out side . I caught mine befor the track fell off.I used comealong, 14 inch c clamp on the grouser and small 2 ton jack to lift the track line up the holes easy.

[Al Swearengen]

Am I gonna be able to pull the tracks myself with no specialized tools besides a grinder, punch, and sledge?

I've recently bought Korean rails and sprockets for my 450 at about $2300 (excluding bolts and nuts) from my specialty dealer, "Trackman," who confirmed it would be that much or more to turn the pins and bushings. I can't see paying more for domestic for us hobby users. If you can wait, your local/regional supplier/dealer can usually combine your order with their routine stock shipments and avoid extra shipping charges. I chose to trailer them 90 miles home on an ordinary two wheel flat trailer behind my car where, although heavy (800#?) they rode like a dream.

You will find the rails awkward to move; I found my Case 580 backhoe very handy. You could probably heft them by hand with the help of a couple of friends, particularly if sliding them on plywood rather than dirt. Its gonna be hard and dangerous unloading and uncoiling the new ones. (How do other people do this?) The new links will be stiff and should be all straightened out before you install them and try to couple the ends. A come-a-long will be helpful for installing the rail and pulling the ends together. Use pry bars to straighten the links once on the machine, or the ends won't reach.

Be sure to install all four of the beveled washers, two on each side of the master link, whose pin should be liberally greased before installation, and maybe set in the freezer, too, to ease driving it in a bit. The washers are installed with their small diameters together, and the large diameters set against the recess in the rails, and will be awkward to get in as you slide the links together as they are meant to have some springy tension against each other. Put one in each link recess (four per rail) and then tap the master links together with a hammer (grease should help to hold them in place during assembly and try not to drop them in the dirt). Their purpose is to keep grit out of the greased pin and bushing. The pin is a shrink fit and should be slightly larger than the hole in the link but slip easily into the bushing. If it seems impossible to start, it should be no more than about .010 inch oversized (On my Komatsu, I once had to ream the link holes as they were .035 smaller than the pin).

As for tools: Large hammers and pry bars. With a lot of wooden blocks you can raise the dozer using the blade and ripper. Be sure to block them as well for safety at their extreme ends/sides to avoid it being tipsy after you have supported the tractor's chassis. A 1" air impact wrench can be very handy for removing the grouzer plates before removing the old rails (it requires a special air hose larger than the normal 3/8"). Be sure to use only (black) impact style sockets, extensions and angle-joints as your regular sockets will likely break under the force of the large impact wrench. Although a 1/2" air impact driver will be handy for reinstalling the plates after the new rail (chain) is installed on the machine, it will most likely not have enough torque to remove the old bolts. You should grind the end of your impact socket flat to assure that it sits down all the way on the bolt heads or it will jump off and strip their corners. The solution for that, then, is to torch them off. If so, start the cutting torch on the top corner of the bolt head and move down to the base of the head when it is ready for the cutting oxygen, as this quickens the preheating for the cutting. Try not to gouge the plate. You'll probably have to grind the torch slag in order to knock the plate off of the remains of the bolt and nut which will remain in the rail. You can reuse the bolts and nuts that you haven't torched but must chase all the threads (well over 500) or buy all new ones, saving lots of frustration, for about $1 a pair. You'll most likely need a 12 point box end wrench for holding the square nut, as the open end is usually too wide to fit within the rail opening. I think Trackman had special wrenches made. I also used square bar or flat stock on each side of the nuts, as appropriate, when a wrench just wouldn't work. Hex nuts are a no-brainer. Be careful of your hands and teeth when holding the nuts while using the impact as the wrench can swing or fly off violently.

A good punch for the master pin remove/install will look like a t-handle. Put one end of the handle on the pin, whack on the other end. Hold the "tee" by its "leg" to keep the holding hand away from the "area of opportunity" defined by all the places the sledge can go if it misses its mark on the "handle" punch! This procedure is actually a "concerto" for four hands. The extra hands are also helpful when removing the plates.

I'm not sure if it matters which way the new rail is installed. My service book shows the wide end of each link facing forward on the top of the track loop. The grouzers only go on the rail one way. I hope that helps a bit.

Ralph

That helps more than "a bit"! Thank you so much for your reply!

[Al Swearengen]

I agree with Jack-the-ripper's experience in putting in the master pin. I put mine in the freezer overnight, and liberally greased the washers to hold 'em in place while I lined up the links and pounded in the master pin.

Since the original poster is from the great Central Valley (me too), I got a great price on Berco rails, pads, bolts and sprockets from their Woodland office. My dozer is located at the ranch near Jackson, about 90 miles away, and I hauled everything in a single axle trailer. No problems. It helped to use a backhoe to drag the tracks around to the right position after taking the old tracks off. Search in this forum and you'll find a link to pictures of replacing tracks on my 450C. Maybe not much different than replacing tracks on a newer 450?

As with others, cost of labor to turn or replace pins and bushings is only $100-200 less than new rails.

Well, looks like new rails for me! Berco in Woodland, good to know! I'm not to far from Hyw. 49 myself, 'bout 25 miles back in the hills (where mine is at)! So, howdy neighbor!

[Tigerhaze]

You will find the rails awkward to move; I found my Case 580 backhoe very handy. You could probably heft them by hand with the help of a couple of friends, particularly if sliding them on plywood rather than dirt. Its gonna be hard and dangerous unloading and uncoiling the new ones. (How do other people do this?)

I used my 8N tractor with boom in the past, but inefficient and dangerous because hard to maneever tracks in tight spaces and a little too heavy for that tractor. I know use my Bobcat skid steer as a lot easier to maneuver and have the bucket to raise.

I have also moved tracks by hand, but because of weight you have to pull a couple links upm at a time and "snake" it across the ground. i don't recommend that