450 Engine locked up?

[JSVice]

I'm trying to ascertain if my engine is locked up. The battery is dead, so I bought one of those rechargeable jump starters with (allegedly) 900 peak amps available. I don't know if that translates in to cold cranking amps exactly, but regardless, here's what happened:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvpics/5008873160/

It made some noise but I don't think it really turned over. Note - I'm not expecting the engine to hit or fire, since it's been sitting with the fuel tank removed. I'm just trying to see if it's locked up. I suppose my other option is to take the front off the tractor and see if I can access the crankshaft, but I'd like some thoughts before I tackle that one. The exhaust stack has been covered, but it still could have gotten some condensation rust down in there, since there's no way around that if it's stored outside.

[JSVice]

So, I looked up the CCA's on that portable charger. It's roughly 200. It was a big waste of time to try and turn a dozer over with 200 cranking amps. Sheesh.

[Lavoy]

Sounds to me like it was trying to roll, otherwise all you would get is a thunk.
Lavoy

[JSVice]

Sounds to me like it was trying to roll, otherwise all you would get is a thunk.
Lavoy

Appreciate the feedback.

[Jack-the-Ripper]

Hmmm. That kinda looks like my 450C.

My 450B sat for 2-3 years under a shed roof with a can over the exhaust, and when I put two good commercial size batteries to it, it fired up immediately - I was pleasantly surprised. Can't say I've had such luck with the various gasoline engines that set around here all winter. On them, I've had the oil dry up and stick the valves.

Living in the mountains with slow internet, I haven't reviewed your movie. I will say in general: two good, big, batteries are very desirable; good clean connections are a must; pay equal attention to the ground connection, too.

You can remove the starter motor and clip it to a battery with jumper cables to give it a quick no load test, shorting the large hot(+) to the small "start" terminal to activate the solenoid (I use a screwdriver). Seeing the disassembled status of your rig, you can set your batteries on the track and bolt cables directly to the starter hot terminal, and the ground, under a starter mounting bolt, again cleaning the surfaces first. This will pretty much eliminate anything else that would tend to slow the cranking ability of the starter, and hopefully give you a good indication of how easily your engine will turn.

Finally, and again, in general, consider avoiding the temptations of any battery, generator, motor, or power tool that flaunts "peak" amps, power, horsepower, etc. On motors they usually are referring to the short circuit amps that flow when the rotor is locked up - a "rating" that is never useful to judge actual power that can be accessed and delivered to a load.

I like the 450C. I hope you can get her going.

[lsts]

I'm trying to ascertain if my engine is locked up. The battery is dead, so I bought one of those rechargeable jump starters with (allegedly) 900 peak amps available. I don't know if that translates in to cold cranking amps exactly, but regardless, here's what happened:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvpics/5008873160/

It made some noise but I don't think it really turned over. Note - I'm not expecting the engine to hit or fire, since it's been sitting with the fuel tank removed. I'm just trying to see if it's locked up. I suppose my other option is to take the front off the tractor and see if I can access the crankshaft, but I'd like some thoughts before I tackle that one. The exhaust stack has been covered, but it still could have gotten some condensation rust down in there, since there's no way around that if it's stored outside.

John, my 450C did the same thing. Turned out the starter had gotten water inside it and rusted pretty good. Had to have the starter rebuilt and it works great now. Hope this helps. Charles

[vestor_guy]

It just sounds like a battery. I don't use two batteries, just one high output. I also do not leave the battery stored in the tractor. If you do not have a block heater for cold days, just put the battery in a warm room for a few hours. For every 10C , thats about 20 F, the battery performance will double and spin the engine really well. If you don't remove the battery, don't start it until later in the day when temps have warmed up.

[DavTom]

If the battery is completely dead even a 900 amp booster will not do much better... The dead battery will be drawing most of the amps not leaving much for the starter... You can try leaving the booster hooked up for about 15 minutes then try it again...

I have one for boosting heavy trucks and with dead batteries it needs to sit on them a few minutes before it will turn the engine...
Also if the battery has a dead cell or is internally shorted you will need a new battery to get it to crank...

[Willyr]

Your not getting enough amps to the starter. Engine sounds good so dont give up on it. If your using an older battery get it checked with a load tester. You will need to put it on a charger first.

Otherwise connections, connections, connections. You would be surprised at what a little bit of emery cloth will do. A cheap alternative to cable cleaner is a plumbers brush. Clean both the terminals and cables. Inspect cables, are they actually clean? The cable that goes to the ground? How is the ground? For best starting have the ground cable connect to a bolt on the starter. How are the ends at the solenoid? In the world of starters and charging systems its all about connections, connections, connections.

[philztoy]

one good 1000 amp battery should turn her over and get her started on a moderately warm day. I had two old low 1000 CCA batteries and the little jump starter thng didn't do much. Then hooked it up to a roll up jump starter and that didn't do as much as one would hope. Although eventually it charged the old set of batteries enough to turn it over. My manual says about 600 CCA is supposed to do it. So if you have a good car batter hook that up and see if it turns over. Mine sat for a good couple of years like one of the other guys on here and it also fired up right after I repaired the starter wire to the fuel pump. Not saying I am slow but it took a couple of yeard for me to get around to finding that problem.

Good luck

[digitup2]

for the 50 bucks that a battery load tester costs they are well worth it when you hook one up and test for crank amps .Then learn to read the tester and it will tell the condition of starter as well as the alternator .This is all the information any good crawler man needs to find a problem fast .Look at your local auto parts store for one they save time and a lot of guessing as well .Digitup.

[DavTom]

for the 50 bucks that a battery load tester costs they are well worth it when you hook one up and test for crank amps .Then learn to read the tester and it will tell the condition of starter as well as the alternator .This is all the information any good crawler man needs to find a problem fast .Look at your local auto parts store for one they save time and a lot of guessing as well .Digitup.

What he said, a good load tester will save you a lot of time...
I've seen many batteries show 12 - 14 volts and as soon as the load hits it drop to 0...