blade type

[southern4456]

I have a jd 450c appox a 78-79 model with a six way blade, my trouble is
that I cannot angle the blade left or right without the blade also tilting downward, there is some play in the blade when I shake it back and forth
is it time for shims, what is a good rule of thumb on how many shims I need for both sides and should this blade tilt when it is angles from side to side

[digitup2]

When removing the shims do it one side at a time and when the blade binds you went too far all older Deere blades have some tendency to tilt when coming to the end of the angle cycle You may need to rebuild the blade hole and the pin in the angle frame as well as the wear areas that are between these two points look down to Blade pivot repair in this section .Digitup.

[southern4456]

thanks

[DBCSteve]

When removing the shims do it one side at a time and when the blade binds you went too far all older Deere blades have some tendency to tilt when coming to the end of the angle cycle You may need to rebuild the blade hole and the pin in the angle frame as well as the wear areas that are between these two points look down to Blade pivot repair in this section .Digitup.

As a follow-up to my similar project, I took the advice from Digitup and got a good welder to build up the pin. I also bought some wear plates (T-1 steel I think) to weld to the angling frame surfaces rather than hard-facing. Unfortunately the welder didn't show up today, so maybe next weekend.

The wear plates are 3/8 inch thick, and I may need 3 or 4 of the shims on each side to shim it out. This blade (6405) comes stock with 4 shims per side.

For the original poster, be sure to check wear on the angling frame bushings. Mine were cracked, ovalized and falling out. Got new bushings, which will go in next weekend.

[DBCSteve]

is it time for shims, what is a good rule of thumb on how many shims I need for both sides

The shims make the gap larger, so to tighten things up you remove shims. If you are down to one or no shims per side, it is time to build up the wear surface on the angling frame and put shims back in. Shims are available after market (I paid $12@), but probably easy to make out of sheet metal.

[southern4456]

I think that if I can I need to put a pic on here so yall can see what I am talking about. there is no shims on this blade at all, I f you stand in front pf the blade with it off the ground , you can grab the top of the blade and shake it back and forth with about a half an inch of play in it and as stated before when I angle the blade to either side it will also dip to that side. and I will have to straighten the blade up before I begin pushing, I am by no means a expert so I may not be explaining myself correctly,If I can a pic on then I think this will help, but thanks alot to everybody that responded

[digitup2]

Then you need to rebuild at some point if the shims are gone and you have that much play.That unit is badly worn out.Digitup.

[Jack-the-Ripper]

I just fixed the same problem on my 450B. The angling frame has a "tab" on each side on which the blade and the curved plate ride, and where the shims would be located. With the blade off, looking at the end of this tab, it had the cross section of a football - worn top and bottom, fat in the middle. I built this tab back out to parallel using 7018 welding rod. I think one should avoid hard facing rod as then you will wear the back of the blade which is probably T-1 or something very tough (although it might be easier to weld the blade because you can flop it on its face and weld in a horizontal position). The curved plate that bolts on was also worn and tapered thin toward its outer edge (the edge actually faces toward the center of the dozer). Someone has already built up the other side, so I will hit it lightly with the grinder and install it in reverse where I'll probably need more shims now. If the center pin is worn, or its corresponding hole in the blade, then they will have to be built up as well. In my blade the pin has about a 3/4" groove in the back that had been welded in, and the blade appears to have had a sleeve installed and welded in. The tedious welding and grinding on the tab was done by hand and took about 4 hours for both sides.

While the blade was off I continued painting the old girl which highlighted three frame cracks each about 6" in the large "U" that fastens the blade to the tractor. They're now ground out and welded.

Also, on my 450C where the tilt cylinder fastens to the blade, mine had a pin and sleeve that tended to fall out while working. When I got it the sleeve was missing and made the blade real sloppy and slow to react to my tilt command. Any and all of these could make your blade tilt when it is turned but the system seems as if it should be symmetrical and balanced so I'm not sure what geometry would make it tilt other than just weight being off center because of sloppy connections.

[DBCSteve]

I just fixed the same problem on my 450B. The angling frame has a "tab" on each side on which the blade and the curved plate ride, and where the shims would be located. With the blade off, looking at the end of this tab, it had the cross section of a football - worn top and bottom, fat in the middle. I built this tab back out to parallel using 7018 welding rod. I think one should avoid hard facing rod as then you will wear the back of the blade which is probably T-1 or something very tough (although it might be easier to weld the blade because you can flop it on its face and weld in a horizontal position). The curved plate that bolts on was also worn and tapered thin toward its outer edge (the edge actually faces toward the center of the dozer). Someone has already built up the other side, so I will hit it lightly with the grinder and install it in reverse where I'll probably need more shims now. If the center pin is worn, or its corresponding hole in the blade, then they will have to be built up as well. In my blade the pin has about a 3/4" groove in the back that had been welded in, and the blade appears to have had a sleeve installed and welded in. The tedious welding and grinding on the tab was done by hand and took about 4 hours for both sides.

While the blade was off I continued painting the old girl which highlighted three frame cracks each about 6" in the large "U" that fastens the blade to the tractor. They're now ground out and welded.

Also, on my 450C where the tilt cylinder fastens to the blade, mine had a pin and sleeve that tended to fall out while working. When I got it the sleeve was missing and made the blade real sloppy and slow to react to my tilt command. Any and all of these could make your blade tilt when it is turned but the system seems as if it should be symmetrical and balanced so I'm not sure what geometry would make it tilt other than just weight being off center because of sloppy connections.

On Thursday I finally buttoned my blade back up, and it works great! Had a good welder build up the pin, weld on T-1 wear plates, and some major welding on the back side of the angling frame -- it was in bad shape. Here are complete photos for the project, start to finish:

http://gallery.me.com/macaulay.steve#100167

This shows three shims per side, but I eventually put in four shims on each side to get it adjusted properly. The importance of these pictures is they provide much more detail than you can find in the TM and parts manual for the dozer.

Yesterday I got to go out and play, and it was a pleasure to work with a blade that had no slop and did what it is supposed to do. The pictures show a new left angle cylinder. Both angle cylinders had broken tabs/clevis (or whatever they are called) so that the pins connecting the C frame to the cylinder only went through one hole on the cylinder. After buying a new tube for the right side and rebuilding that cylinder, there were so many problems with the rod and other parts of the cylinder that I got a complete new cylinder for the other side. About the same price. Got all these parts from brokentractor.com, much less expensive than Ma Deere.

Might go with paint next, but the most important thing is everything works.