350 jd dozer drive clutch help

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taterbug
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350 jd dozer drive clutch help

Post by taterbug » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:24 pm

hi guys hope someone can help with this. my hubby and son have bought a jd 350 ,dont know the yr i think it was made in the 70,s from some of the paper work that came with it
any who, they have had to replace the steering clutch's-throw out bearing-
brake band and pressure plate on one side, this was just a few working hrs ago, they were after market parts not oem.they now have the same problem with it that they started with "slipping". one question is what caused it to do this so soon after replacing them. it has wide tracks (on it when bought)could this cause them to wear out sooner and why only the side we replaced. also water seeps into the box where you adjust the clutches if they leave it uncovered. they were wondering wheather they should have replaced the drum,. any help would be apreciated
also is there any way to get specs on drum to see if it has too much wear on it. oh bye the way its being used to clear 15 to 20 yrs of bushes and trees on out family farm
sorry im not more techinical im doing this from their discriptions.
thanks ET

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:34 pm

The aftermarket parts are fine, that is not the problem. Ask him if they set the findgers on the pressure plate when they installed it. Also, if there was any oil WHATSOEVER on the fiber discs, it will slip period, If there was oil on there, replace them.
A wide gauge is going to be hard on clutches and brakes, but not that hard.
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Post by taterbug » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:49 am

hi yes they set the fingers on the pressure plate , no oil just water on the plates.. they took it apart this week end and found the prob. gonna need new fiber plates . they think the snap ring on the hub kept it the first plate from contacting the brake drum and when they tightened the thing down it broke the first one, dont see how it wrorked at all. they had put it back in the same way it came out so they dont know if someone else had put it in wrong or if they just did something wrong.
should they put the first plate behind the big snap ring or what is the way to put it back together.
thanks
E.T.

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Post by taterbug » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:17 pm

HI AGAIN
REALLY COULD USE SOME HELP . IF ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT THIS STUFF. OK WE HAVE NEW METAL AND FIBER PLATES TO GO BACK IN. ON FURTHER INSPECTION OF PLATES THE METAL ONES HAD TURNED BLUE (SURE SIGN OF BEING HOT) STILL HAVENT GOT ANY ANSWER ON THE PLACEMENT OF THE FIRST FIBER DISK, HUSBAND TRYED IT OUT BY PUTTING IT TOGETHER AND IT FITS IN FRONT OF THE SNAP RING ON THE HUB. THE FIBER ONE THAT WAS BROKE LOOKED LIKE TOO MUCH PRESSURE HAD PUSHED THE OUTSIDE DOWN AND THE INSIDE STAYED ON THE SNAP RING, CAUSING IT TO BOW AND CRACK. BUT BEFORE THEY WASTE ANOTHER PLATE I WOULD LOVE TO FIND OUT FOR SURE .
ALSO FOUND THAT THE SIDE THAT THEY ARE WORKING ON HAD THE BRAKES ADJUSTED WEIRD, THE BOLT THATS SUPPOSED TO TOUCH IN THE ADJUSTMENT WASNT TOUCHING (HE THINKS THE BRAKE ROD FOR THE FOOT PETAL IS TOO TIGHT ) ALSO FOUND THAT THE THROW OUT BEARING WAS STICKING WHEN MOVED, WHEN IT WAS APART SO FIGURE IT IS WHEN ITS TOGETHER. ANY IDEAS GUYS.
DONT KNOW IF THIS HAD ANTHING TO DO WITH OUR PROBLEM OR NOT
APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP AS WE ARE NEWBYS WITH DOZERS
SORRY MY POST IS SO LONG BUT I DONT KNOW HOW ELSE TO TELL IT
ELAINE :oops:

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Post by taterbug » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:05 pm

my son talked to the guy from CRAWLER HEAVEN this morning and he said the plates DO go in with one fiber in front of snap ring then a metal one on the other side of it . thought this might help someone else if they run into the same situation.just cant figure out why they put them in the wrong way unless they didnt want to spend the money before they sold it
guess the other stuff will be just adjustments
thanks again
Elaine :D

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Post by digitup » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:09 pm

If you find that the metal plates are turning blue it is a indication of way to mutch slip take a plate and lay it flat if plates heat they worp and the whole synario gets worse! Are the fibers flat? I would replace fibres and plates together and when the fibers and plates are instaled new in an old housing make shure the housing face is in good condition then when all plates and fibers are instaled the clutch should have no compresion when tightening the cover plate bolts I have a 350 C wide track and these clutches are different on the newer ones like mine but not that mutch the wide track are notorious for beeing hard on them selves I will only use mine in mud holes that I would not be able to work in with my other dozers as the track whear is big $ on dry going and the clutches are the week spot when on good going .If you can slip the tracks ground conditions are right for wide track .If not standard track is the tool of trade I hope that you are able to get it back runing soon as possible As my tech manual is for a 350C I cant get too deep in the repair but I will monitor .Digitup.

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Post by taterbug » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:19 pm

hey thanks they replaced all plates and the pressure plate to be sure.
we couldnt figure out why we were having to adjust the clutches so often till we took it apart. someone must have put worn plates in it and wrong when the did cause it was put back together in the same order with the first plate on top of the snap ring (thats wrong acording to someone we ask) should have been first plate in front of snap ring then a steel plate on top of the snapring . thyey have also shortened the right side brake rod thet goes to the foot pedal cant figure that one out, except that the old brake band was worn out too, replaced brake too
also had to replace the bearing on shaft because it shattered when it was being put back together. hopefuly they will have it back together tommorrow YEP-EE keeping my fingers crossed.
Elaine

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Post by derbycrawler » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:50 pm

There should not be any separation between any of the fiber or steel disks. They should be all one complete pack when installed correctly. From the TECH manual: Make sure snap ring is in inner groove in final drive shaft and slip brake drum into position. Install outer snap ring. Pack bearing (pilot bearing)cavity in final drive shaft about half full with high temp grease. (make sure bearing is installed with shielded side towards splines on steering clutch drive shaft). Install drive shaft with hub and pilot bearing attached inside brake drum. Starting with a composition facing against the brake drum, alternately install the eight composition facings and seven steel plates. Install pressure plate and tighten nuts to 18-22 ft-lbs.
FROM ME:The first fiber disk may have some bow to it once tightened down to torque. Make sure you set the fingers on the pressure plate with the JD-7 guage before you attach it to the drum, Lavoy can hook you up with everything you need including the JD-7 guage. Let me know the outcome. If you dont have a tech manual I would highly recommend getting one before installing something incorrect. Parts for these units aren't cheap. Shannon

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Post by digitup » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:41 am

Elaine when they are in that clutch houseing look to see if there is a plug in the bottom this is probably the moisture retention problem as the wide tracks were always too the top of the tracks in mud most owners pluged the lower hole with either a thread in plug or a cork or rubber plug instaled And this was a problem in the north as it would freeze solid in there when you forgot in late fall if the plugs were not pulled I had a 350 but never had steering clutch problems with it If I remember the tops of these houseings are not water tight and here is where the problem starts

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Post by taterbug » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:59 pm

thanks for the help
from all the paper work that was in the service manual that was with the 350 it looks like it came from a ski resort in kewaskum wi. will tell them to check for a plug. this is a great little dozer just having probs with the clutches on one side. it has all the attachments for pto and three point hitch, which we were told was fairly rare.

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Post by Lavoy » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:45 pm

The more I read this thread, the more confused I become. Unless I am missing something, other than holding the brake drum on the pinion shaft, there is no relationship between the steering clutch discs and any snap ring. I only have the manual for a straight 350 here, but I just got done reading it again, and the 350 is no different than a 440 or 1010 other than being bigger. I can not see how it is possible to install any disc anywhere near a snap ring, let alone on top or underneath one.
I think we need more info on this one. Are you using a service and or parts manual when doing this job?
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Post by derbycrawler » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:08 pm

I guess that is kind of where I was trying to direct them, parts or tech manual. I was also trying to advise that there is nothing inbetween the steels and fibers.

Shannon

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Post by Lavoy » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:59 pm

I thnk I see what is going on. When you put the clutch together, you install one fiber disc in the brake drum. Then you install the drive hub which has a snap ring on it. This snap ring will be above the first fiber disc in the clutch pack, so I yes there is a snap ring above one of the fiber discs.
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Post by taterbug » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:17 pm

Bingo!!!!
Whew!! i told you guys we are rookies k when they took the drum off (with the clutches inside)(the housing) that left the shaft still on the dozer, then when they started, thats how they put it back, one fiber plate then the hub (which has a large snap ring) then the first metal disk, after all the disks were in place they slid all of it together. we prob. went about it BASS-ACKARDS if you know what i mean.
YES Lavoy thats what i have been trying to ask about . i told ya'll im writing this from what they are telling me, and when i go check on them and see part of it. and you guys thought we women didnt care about those machines.
sorry to have caused such a confusion :oops: but i think we now have an answer to the most pressing issues :wink: i sure know who to ask if they get into anymore trouble
thanks again :D
Elaine

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Post by taterbug » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:20 pm

oh i forgot-- service manual it looks like it has always been with the dozer so i guess they could have updated some of it by now

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