3325 winch clutch discs

[tjdub]

The winch on my 450 stopped pulling the other day. After checking pressure it was obvious that the problem was in the clutch. I pulled out the clutch plates and sure enough one of the three fiber disks is pretty much completely gone. This winch sat unused for who knows how many years (decades?) before I started using it last year, so the fiber on all the discs appears kind of "rotten". I ordered 3 new fiber disks off of eBay for about $60/each (Deere wants $200 each?!).

My question is is it standard procedure to replace the steel discs when you replace the fiber discs? The steel ones are pretty pitted. If I don't replace them too, will they just eat my new fiber discs? The two steel discs cost $50/each from Deere and I can' t seem to find any aftermarket ones. I don't really want to spend the extra $100 unless these pitted ones will eat my new fiber discs immediately.

Fiber disc that is lacking fiber now:



Compared to the other fiber discs:



Pitted steel discs:

[jtrichard]

you need to at least sand blast or bead blast those then you can see just what you have ....cleaned up they will most likely be ok i would think

[jdemaris]

My question is is it standard procedure to replace the steel discs when you replace the fiber discs?

The clutch setup is not a weak point in that winch and I'd use the old steels with no fear.

On the other hand, the brake band is barely adequate when new and burnished properly.

We worked on many winches for loggers. I rarely found a worn clutch disk - more often they'd be oil-soaked.

Most of the repairs we did were due to weak brake springs, leaking free-spool pistons, glazed brake bands, and failed rotary hydraulic control valves.

[tjdub]

Nice to see you back jdemaris.

Yeah, the brake is definitely a problem on this winch. My brake band suffers from the same problem these clutch discs had: the fiber material has turned sort of chalky. Burnishing and re-adjusting helped, but it still slips with good hitch. It isn't bad enough yet for me to want to spend $400 on a refurb brake band though

I think I'll just reuse these steel discs. I don't know where I would get them blasted, but maybe going over them with an emery pad will do the trick?

[jdemaris]

Yeah, the brake is definitely a problem on this winch. It isn't bad enough yet for me to want to spend $400 on a refurb brake band though

$400 for refurbished? Sounds like prices have really gone up. I used to carry a couple of new bands on my service truck. We changed many. Brand new Deere band was around $180 as I recall - and customers complained about the high price. That was 70s-90s. Even worse were the little square rotary winch valves that were over $400 at that time and failed like clockwork. We took out many bands that were brand new but slipped and just swapped in other new ones on warranty. At one time I had a stack of close to 50 almost new bands laying around in my barn. I wish now I'd saved some of that stuff.

The winches are the crawlers weren't quite at touchy as the ones on the skidders with the same band. Seems a 440 or 540 pulls more logs at one time and thusly puts more load on that brake-band. I gave away bands to crawler owners that had slipped in skidders - but worked good enough in crawlers.

[tjdub]

$400 for refurbished? Sounds like prices have really gone up.

I guess the price I found was for new aftermarket (not refurb), but at $380 it's still quite a beat cheaper than what Deere charges ($795.60!!!!).

Seems like a barn full of used ones would be worth its weight in gold these days. Well, silver anyway.

[jdemaris]

I guess the price I found was for new aftermarket (not refurb), but at $380 it's still quite a beat cheaper than what Deere charges ($795.60!!!!).

Seems like a barn full of used ones would be worth its weight in gold these days. Well, silver anyway.

Seems that the few times in my life when I actually got rid of something . . . I later regretted it.

I brought home Deere parts for 30 years and filled my barn up. Mostly warranteed stuff and some was was new with nothing wrong. My boss used to make fun of me because I was such a scrounge. Then - Deere had a very long strike and parts became unavailable for a long time. Maybe 6 months? Deere dealers all over the US were in kind of a panic. The strike - as I recall - was by the UAW and they wanted to make Deere a "warning" to the auto companies. Maybe in the mid-80s? I know after Deere, they did the same thing to Caterpillar.

Anyway- back to my point . . . during that strike my boss started buying back parts from me that I'd taken home over the years. Some for our dealership and some we sold to other dealers. It was proof that much of that warranteed stuff worked fine - when really needed.

A few years after that, my then wife convinced me to clean out the barn and sell all the parts for scrap. I did, but have regretted it ever since. Keep in mind though, that used parts were not worth the high dollars they are now.

I got a new wife since then - and my barn is once again full. Actually it's three barns full. Not with Deere dealership parts though.

[77 Ford]

I think I'll just reuse these steel discs. I don't know where I would get them blasted, but maybe going over them with an emery pad will do the trick?

Just a suggestion but in my little town the shops that do monuments and other types of stone work will do sand/media blasting. I have a little cabinet blaster but when I do big pieces like fenders or deck lids I take it to them. Most of that type of work is done with the same equipment.

That said an orbital sander would probably work pretty well too.

[MarkW]

That said an orbital sander would probably work pretty well too.

For cleaning up clutch plates, pressure plates, and brake rotors my tool of choice is usually an orbital sander with 50 grit sandpaper. IMHO 36 grit is usually too coarse and 120 grit is not only too fine as you want a less polished surface but it also clogs up with rust and dirt quickly. 50 to 80 works pretty well most times.

As mentioned, the surface of those plates look fine but do not forget to check the splines and ears for excessive wear or damage.

Another item to keep consider is having them re-lined locally if possible.

And one more option to be aware of is that it is possible for you to do it yourself as well. Most disks are bonded nowadays, and a few years ago I was trying to find some brake disks for my neighbors tractor (a Case 200B) and they were unavailable. I could get them relined if I set the disks away but it would have taken a few weeks IIRC. Anyway, I was talking to some classic car restorers and they use JB Weld "Industro Weld" epoxy to attach the linings to the backing. Anyway, that was what I did and the brakes were still holding together when they sold the tractor 6 years later. It is quite hilly where I live, so brakes get used a lot compared to most of the midwest. Anyway, it is just another option to be aware of in the future if something is either impossible to find or when some new friction plates end up costing 10% of the price of whatever the piece of equipment is worth.

[jdemaris]

Most disks are bonded nowadays, and a few years ago I was trying to find some brake disks for my neighbors tractor (a Case 200B) and they were unavailable. .

I just put new brake disks in a Case 530. Same 6" brake disks as used in the 200B. $45 each.

When I worked for an FMC/Bolens dealer back in the 70s, they sold us new linings to rebond ourselves at the dealership. Came with glue and we had to stick in a 500 degree oven to bond.

[tjdub]

That said an orbital sander would probably work pretty well too.

For cleaning up clutch plates, pressure plates, and brake rotors my tool of choice is usually an orbital sander with 50 grit sandpaper. IMHO 36 grit is usually too coarse and 120 grit is not only too fine as you want a less polished surface

Well, I went out and bought 120 grit before I read your message, and it seemed to work OK. Not exactly precision machining, but at least now I don't have to be worried about them chewing up the fiber surface too much.

[tjdub]

And one more option to be aware of is that it is possible for you to do it yourself as well. Most disks are bonded nowadays, and a few years ago I was trying to find some brake disks for my neighbors tractor (a Case 200B) and they were unavailable. I could get them relined if I set the disks away but it would have taken a few weeks IIRC. Anyway, I was talking to some classic car restorers and they use JB Weld "Industro Weld" epoxy to attach the linings to the backing.

I was thinking about trying to reline that brake band myself. Reddirt has a nice guide for doing it on the riveted type:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... t=15#25496

But this brake band is the bonded type. How do you "un-bond" the old fiber in this case? Does it just come unglued at a high enough temperature?

[jtrichard]

crawler123 just did his 450 steering it had bonded linning and he went to riveted did it himself also

[tjdub]

I got my new discs in the mail today.



It was 50F today so I had to carry everything a quarter mile to where the 450 was parked.



Wished I would have brought the cordless drill and that sandpaper wheel. It took a lot of emery cloth and elbow grease to clean up the pressure plate. I guess that was the only option for the drum though.







I got it back together and even remembered to readjust the brake band while I had the cover off. It works great! Now if only winter would show up I could actually get something done