I have a 350B that has always started and run fine. A couple of weeks ago I drove it into the shop to do some routine maintenance and I haven't been able to start it since.
In the last few weeks we have installed new filters, a new transfer pump, a new injector pump and injectors and it still does the same thing. Almost acts like it wants to fire when you first try, but then nothing.
There is no air restriction, the electric valve in the injector pump is working, the valves are moving, fuel is getting to the pump but when you open an injector line, it seems to the former Deere mechanic helping me, that it is not sending enough fuel to the injectors. How can this be? It has had two different pumps on it.
What can we be missing? The mechanic helping me is totally flummoxed and I'm nearly suicidal!
350B won't start
I agree with catdr8rll in that you need to make sure there is fuel going all the way through your injector pump. Sense you have had two pumps on this thing, I would make double sure you are getting 12 volts to the solenoid and that you have the pump timed properly. Also make sure the injector lines are completely open. I have had little bits of deteriorated flex ring and O-rings get into these lines and stop them up. Check your inlets on the injectors as well. It just sounds like either timing or something is stopped up.
I'm not sure what "Flummoxed" is but it sounds like a bad thing! And "Suicide" is never an option! Take a good "BFH" to it instead! Preferably on one of the track pads! It helps with the frustration!
I'm not sure what "Flummoxed" is but it sounds like a bad thing! And "Suicide" is never an option! Take a good "BFH" to it instead! Preferably on one of the track pads! It helps with the frustration!
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
350 wont start.
Just a thought:
I'm wondering if you brought it into a warm building from the cold out doors and the water in the tank is the problem. Metal tanks create lots of condensation, warm/ cold, warm/ cold. If not topped off every nite this time of year there could be more water in your fuel than you realize. Dave
I'm wondering if you brought it into a warm building from the cold out doors and the water in the tank is the problem. Metal tanks create lots of condensation, warm/ cold, warm/ cold. If not topped off every nite this time of year there could be more water in your fuel than you realize. Dave
Are you getting any fuel at all through your injector lines? At your injectors?
If you are getting fuel through the pump all the way through the return line back to the tank, then that is enough fuel. Anything less than that is not enough fuel.
Have you checked to see if the injector pump drive shaft is indeed turning the pump?
If you haven't, then take the little timing window cover off and watch to see if the front plate is turning while you crank the engine over. If it is not turning, then most likely the shaft is broken.
If it is turning, then make sure you have the timing where it belongs. You could be 180 degrees out of time.
Did you go through the proper timing procedure when you changed pumps? If not, then this could be the problem.
If all of this is correct and you are still not getting fuel through the injector lines. Then there has to be either something stuck or there is a blockage somewhere.
On any diesel it goes like this... Good cranking from the starter. Good compression in each cylinder. Good, clean, full flowing fuel all the way through the injectors. Anything less than that is useless! Good injectors for good injection of the fuel. Then last and certainly not least is Timing, Timing, Timing!!! It has to be right.
I still think you have something either stuck or stopped up.
If you are getting fuel through the pump all the way through the return line back to the tank, then that is enough fuel. Anything less than that is not enough fuel.
Have you checked to see if the injector pump drive shaft is indeed turning the pump?
If you haven't, then take the little timing window cover off and watch to see if the front plate is turning while you crank the engine over. If it is not turning, then most likely the shaft is broken.
If it is turning, then make sure you have the timing where it belongs. You could be 180 degrees out of time.
Did you go through the proper timing procedure when you changed pumps? If not, then this could be the problem.
If all of this is correct and you are still not getting fuel through the injector lines. Then there has to be either something stuck or there is a blockage somewhere.
On any diesel it goes like this... Good cranking from the starter. Good compression in each cylinder. Good, clean, full flowing fuel all the way through the injectors. Anything less than that is useless! Good injectors for good injection of the fuel. Then last and certainly not least is Timing, Timing, Timing!!! It has to be right.
I still think you have something either stuck or stopped up.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
The electric temperature gauge on this thing always acted screwy, so I replaced it with a mechanical one. I then replaced the air filter. I was going to warm it up and change the oil, but it hasn't started since.
This always made me wonder if I had somehow messed up the wiring and I was getting juice to the pump during or after cranking, but I've tried a jumper wire from the battery and it makes no difference.
As for the air filter part, we've taken the air hose between the filter and manifold off and it still doesn't start, and if you put your hand over it, it has good suction.
This always made me wonder if I had somehow messed up the wiring and I was getting juice to the pump during or after cranking, but I've tried a jumper wire from the battery and it makes no difference.
As for the air filter part, we've taken the air hose between the filter and manifold off and it still doesn't start, and if you put your hand over it, it has good suction.
Okay, back to the replaced pump? Did you check to make sure the shaft is turning on it? Recently? After you have tried to crank the engine? Even if it was okay when you installed it.
The reason I ask, is this... I replaced one of these pumps on a 350B several years ago and ended in the exact same issue you have. It ran before, although poorly and when I replaced the pump I accidentally lost one of the sealing rings that goes on both sides of the injector lines. The one I lost was the one going to the pump side of the line. This is easily done!
When this happens, it allows the line bolt to protrude inside the pump too far and it will lock the pump tight enough to snap the pump drive shaft.
Your shaft may have been okay when you lined the marks on the new pump but after cranking the engine is when this will occur.
Your original pump could have lost the flex ring or something after you shut it down for your maintenance.
I think you have had a double whammy of events here. It is either something stuck, like a fuel inlet valve or the plungers or the fuel inlet screen is stopped up. That screen should be just under the inlet fitting on your injector pump.
On the timing issue... Did you line the "Dots" on the shaft and the inside of the pump? That is where I'm wondering about the timing. If those dots aren't lined together then you are 180 degrees out of time.
I only bring this up to help you make sure everything is as it should be. Don't make the mistake of assuming it is okay.
On a simpler note... Some times it takes a lot of cranking to get the fuel out to the injectors. I don't like doing it any more than anyone else does.
Hang in there and keep trying! We will figure this out. Just remember this... It's a machine! You are smarter than it is!!
The reason I ask, is this... I replaced one of these pumps on a 350B several years ago and ended in the exact same issue you have. It ran before, although poorly and when I replaced the pump I accidentally lost one of the sealing rings that goes on both sides of the injector lines. The one I lost was the one going to the pump side of the line. This is easily done!
When this happens, it allows the line bolt to protrude inside the pump too far and it will lock the pump tight enough to snap the pump drive shaft.
Your shaft may have been okay when you lined the marks on the new pump but after cranking the engine is when this will occur.
Your original pump could have lost the flex ring or something after you shut it down for your maintenance.
I think you have had a double whammy of events here. It is either something stuck, like a fuel inlet valve or the plungers or the fuel inlet screen is stopped up. That screen should be just under the inlet fitting on your injector pump.
On the timing issue... Did you line the "Dots" on the shaft and the inside of the pump? That is where I'm wondering about the timing. If those dots aren't lined together then you are 180 degrees out of time.
I only bring this up to help you make sure everything is as it should be. Don't make the mistake of assuming it is okay.
On a simpler note... Some times it takes a lot of cranking to get the fuel out to the injectors. I don't like doing it any more than anyone else does.
Hang in there and keep trying! We will figure this out. Just remember this... It's a machine! You are smarter than it is!!
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
I cant offer anymore than the good suggestions you've already had but I will offer a story of something that happened to me.
I drove my truck home from work all seemed fine. Went to start it the next day and all it would do would crank. I worked on based on the idea that it had to be something simple because it ran to were it was parked. When I finally got past that idea and start looking at as it were something that just did not run I found the problem in about 30 minutes. The timing chain jumped about 4 teeth and the spark was just flat out of time. How it choose that point in time to jump time ( ya that's a pun !) is beyond me.
I drove my truck home from work all seemed fine. Went to start it the next day and all it would do would crank. I worked on based on the idea that it had to be something simple because it ran to were it was parked. When I finally got past that idea and start looking at as it were something that just did not run I found the problem in about 30 minutes. The timing chain jumped about 4 teeth and the spark was just flat out of time. How it choose that point in time to jump time ( ya that's a pun !) is beyond me.
JD- 450C track loader
Serial #208336T
Serial #208336T
Never assume that all is well if you can see things working at the timing window!. I have seen the timing window look great and the shaft broken just beyond that .Remember what you are looking at is between the primary[un timed] and secondary[or high pressure timed pump] now.So just because it looks good at that point doesn't mean every thing is good for go inside .It happened to me several years ago and several JD repairmen wasted two weeks of my machine time assuring me every thing was fine .The shaft twisted off just beyond the timing window.I have had this happen twice in my life so lightning doesn't even strike as often as this! .Get the pump professionally checked out by a fuel injection specialist at a fuel injection shop ONLY[No Deere sign out front] Rosa master Stanadyne yes.Digitup.
This is the second pump, I don't think that both pumps would have twisted off at the exact same spot. Especially one with zero hours on it.
When this all started I drove it in the shop. It started and ran fine like always. I replaced the air filter and replaced the electric temp gauge with a mechanical one. Ever since then, no mater what we have don it has acted the same way; if it sits overnight or so it seems like it fires a few times and then nothing. If you let it sit for just a few minutes, and try again it won't really fire at all.
Could I have messed up something in the wiring when replacing the electric temp gauge, that would keep it from starting? The solenoid in the pump is working.
When this all started I drove it in the shop. It started and ran fine like always. I replaced the air filter and replaced the electric temp gauge with a mechanical one. Ever since then, no mater what we have don it has acted the same way; if it sits overnight or so it seems like it fires a few times and then nothing. If you let it sit for just a few minutes, and try again it won't really fire at all.
Could I have messed up something in the wiring when replacing the electric temp gauge, that would keep it from starting? The solenoid in the pump is working.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 47 guests