450C

[txdeere]

Hi everyone. This is my first post so let me introduce myself. My name is Chris and I have a 450C. I've been lurking here for quite a while but have never registered because I haven't seen many posts on 450c's. Anyway, this seems like a very friendly and useful site. I bought my dozer about 3 years ago when I started ranching part time with my stepdad. It's been a great tool in our ranching operation. Mainly for clearing mesquite, digging ponds, clearing fence lines, and other jobs. We bought it for 10,000 and it's been well worth it. I have built a rake and root grubber for it which has worked out good. I wish I could post some pics of it but I don't have a digital camera right now.

Now the questions, we are in the process of overhauling the motor. Long story short, it over heated, blew a hole in a sleeve and busted a piston.
I'm almost to the point of reassembly, just waiting on a few parts and I took the head to a machine shop to be checked out.

By the way, I searched all over for a service manual and the cheapest one I could find was 200+shipping. What a disappointment when i got a photocopy of a maual. So if any 450C owners need one, I would gladly copy and ship to you for shipping charges. (is it copyrighted? if so maybe not)

The manual talks about a packing placed on the bottom of the sleeve. This is sperate from the o-rings in the block. So please, any mechanics or others please guide me little. The manual doesn't elaborate on this at all.

Thanks in advanced for any help. Also, the most reasoanble rebuild kit I could find on the web was from a place in alabama -- Finney equipment and parts. www.fineycorp.com. Really nice fellas, about 200 cheaper than the closest yellow house.

thanks again. Sorry for the long post. chris.

[txdeere]

Wow, not even a hello. Maybe I was wrong about this site. I can only check about every 3 or 4 days, so thanks in advance for any help.

[Lavoy]

With a comment like that, yes I would say you were wrong about this site. The people on here do not make comments like that.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Perhaps the answer is simpler than you might be thinking. If no one has the information you're looking for, then it's quite probable that no one would reply.

I know that's the case for me. I've not had a 450, much less rebuilt the engine on one, so I have no idea what you need to do in regards to the packing and o-rings you're needing help with. So, I didn't post a reply. I figured why post 'Sorry, but I don't have a clue here' and clutter up the thread with meaningless text.

You note yourself that you've seen very little posted about 450's. That makes sense because most of us have the older, smaller, 2 cylinder machines. There are a few 1010, 2010 and JD350 owners here, but most of what we're all taking about are MC's, 40's, 420's, 430's and 440's. While it might sound like a model 450 is a follow-on to the 440, the two machines are very different. There's nothing I know of that carried over onto the 450 from the 440.

It seems to me that everyone that's read your post is in the same boat I am, and have no knowledge of 450's to help you with. So, the end result is that you had no replies.

But, I can certainly say 'hello' to you. Perhaps I should have done that when I first read your post, even though I can be of no help to you with your current problem. Also, perhaps you have a fairly unique opportunity here to become one of the knowledgeable ones on the JD450 to share info with others.

Stan

[shinnery]

You might try the yesterdaystractors.com site they have both a johndeere and crawler forums, there may be someone there familiar with the bigger crawlers. I mainly go there for information on my Minne-Molines. I feel any info I have on a GM diesel as in my 440 will not apply to a John Deere engine in a 450.
Bryce

[txdeere]

Sorry, I did not mean to upset anyone. I try to stay away from sites that ridicule people for "newbie" posts. I thougth maybe my question was just stupid. Anyway, I've never meet a stranger, so Glad to be here. I'm not that educated with the long line of JD crawlers. I have been helping my brother restore an old JD 730A two cylinder propane tractor. It was much easier than my 450c, but then he did do most of the work on it. Today I replaced 3 of the main bearings on the 450c. It's a 4 cylinder diesel with a turbo. I know it's doesn't sound like a lot, but the engine is still in the crawler. So I had to force the upper bearings out and slide the new ones in. Not as easy as I thought. I needed something that was strong and flexible and would force the upper one out. SO, I cut a credit card in half, and used it. It worked better than I expected. Probably saved myself some money in the long run,(can't use it now). It would be one hundred time easier to fix it if the engine was out but... to my suprise, The engine is in no way connected to anything but the tranny. Not the frame or any kind of support. It has the hydraulic pump in front, but not connected to the frame at all. And as far as I can tell, Only four bolts to the trans.! The only thing is is that the front cover is held on by 3 or four bolts, and one of those bolts is unaccesible unless you take off the whole assembly that holds the blade on. So I'm trying to do this overhaul this with out taking the engine out. Sorry to ramble, I hope I can contribute to this site as much as possible.. I work in the medical field and this is the first time I've attmepted something like this. So any of you more expierenced guys out there, free hunting if you stop by and help out!

[Lavoy]

There are no stupid questions here, don't worry about that. Newbies are as welcome to post as anyone on this board, that is how we ALL learn. I think Stan pretty much summed up the reason for no response to the question. My response was in reference to your comment about the board. I took it as a slam against the people that post on here, myself not included. I get yelled at all the time, I don't care, but I did not like the idea of the rest of the guys on here getting slammed for no reason. There is a wealth of knowledge in the membership of this board, and no one has ever been shy about helping someone out if they have something to input.
Welcome to the board.
Lavoy

[digitup]

Tx deere your lower seal is an oring seal but it will be either a different colour or will be dabed with a spesific color of paint and there should be instructions with the liner kit as one seal is more heat resistant than the other[ I think that the top oring will take more heat] there should be instructions with the kit though MY QUESTION IS ! If the sleve blew out what shape are the other three in. DEERES are notorious for cavitation around the bottom seal and when you are that close you should check the others out .As well the cylender wall gets real thin and this is how you get blow out We test the coolant for acid level yearly on all machines that have coolant over two years old .That motor is a 239 ci and the farm deere guys should also be able to help you with it As for the age of your 450C being too new my oldest deere till a year ago was a 350C although I had them since the 450 days and kept tradeing up till my present machines That 450C is a good little machine but mine pulled week spot at the large bell houseing bolts on the side of the frame and I traded up too a 550 in 81 You mentioned that you built a root rake for your dozer they work great in the small brush I had one of them and sold it three years ago I bought a brush crusher with a 300 horse articulateing tractor on it the only problem with this is this expensive a machine has to be kept so busy that it canot do the little jobs I once did so I am going to build an other rake. I think I have a photo some place see if I can post it later If no one gets back to you in this site dont be alarmed they are probably out playing with there crawlers and I have five this spring so this leaves no time for the computer . Check the rest of those sleves. Digitup.

[srs_mn]

Although I haven't overhauled one for quite a few years now, if I remember correctly (and sometimes I don't) you are supposed to use soap lubricant - NOT oil - when installing those o-ring packings, as at least one of them, swells up when in contact with oil (designed to do that), and would make installation almost impossible... I think it's a different color as digitjup has posted... I agree with him that you should check the other three liners, too, as whatever is affecting one is usually affecting all. He's right that cavitation erosion is a big problem with these engines, too!
srs MN

[txdeere]

Thanks fellas. I am replacing most everything that I can without taking the motor out. All new sleeves, pistons, bearings, one new connecting rod, water pump, thermostat, and a few other things. Right now im just waiting on the head from the machine shop. Also, the gear on the right balancer shaft has a hairline crack all the way through it, so I've ordered one of those also (80$ new!!!) but found a used one for 50. Thanks for the info on the o-rings. I haven't really dug into all the parts yet but have not found any instructions with them. I do have a service manual though. So far this crawler has been big enough to do what we've needed, but a bigger one would be pretty nice. Especially one with a cab and air. I'ts getting pretty standard in this part of the country because of the nasty "killer Bees". We always wear full clothing and bee hats this time of year. I hit one nest last year with out my hat,, Pretty darn scary. Thanks again guys.

[digitup]

I know what you mean about the air conditioning it is nice.Guys on here talk about doing work with an old crawler like my 40C I got that to remind me of how far we have came My 650H is bad enough after 8 hours of bouncen around in it and it is enough! And in this area if you dont have late modle equipment you are down the road But cost drives the week harted away I guess so I stay farely late model with machines that hit the city all we have around here is a small rattle snake with a mild bite in the swamps but those bees would be a[ real pain in the ass ]no pun intended .That is when a cab is great I find that I need an excavator though as trees and brush are hell on the glass so there is one more machine needed to justify a cab on the dozer years ago dad and I had an old 450B with no roll bar and I got a 10 inch branch down across the shifter leaver I was pined to the dozer and neiher could move but enough to turn off the key so I sat there till the farmer came back and cut me out with a chainsaw after that I got a ROPS cab on the 450C weeks later It was a lesson in what could happen and it was noisy but lived with it even the G series cab was noisy but not this H series just the $ would kill trying to justify it ! Digitup.

[txdeere]

Update here. Well, I (with the help of a big rig mechanic friend), have gotton all the main bearings, con rod bearings, new sleeves and pistons in. Got the head bolted down, the balancer shaft gear replaced and the timing set. Next comes the rocker arms, front cover, oil pan, set the radiator, put in water pump, few hoses to hook up, fill er up with oils and fluids and then hope for the best.! I know it has been awhile but I'm working on this about every other weekend. My friend really helped me out alot. He works on big rigs for a living, so some of the stuff I had done he made me "undo". But now I feel really confident in this overhaul. Hopefully in a few weeks it'll be tearing up the brush again.

[digitup]

You mentioned the balancer shaft berrings when the berrings are sloppy it is a good idea to replce them as when the berrings slap around in there they have a tendency to turn that berring a little then the oil jurnal shuts off leaving the balancer to run dryand I dont have to mention what happens next I never had it happen in a dozer but in both of my 310As we turned a balancer berring at higher hours [around 9000]my engine rebuilder cought it the first time and showed me on the next one Spin that balancing shaft by its self and you will notice that it has a real offset to it.Digitup.

[hunter41mag]

Chris,

A tip for rolling in upper mains bearings while engine in chassis.

Take a brass truck brake shoe rivet and put it in oil feed hole in crank journal and than rotate crank (by hand with barring device) and let rivet push out old bearing and intall new one by reversing direction. Also if belts on front of crank are properly adjusted they will need to be loosend to release the tension pulling up on crank.

Don

JD440ic

[txdeere]

Thanks for the advice fellas. The mechanic that came and helped me the other weekend checked that balancer shaft for a long time and decided the bushings were ok so we didn't replace any of them. We were able to push the gear onto it with out removing the other gear in the way. The #3 sleeve and con rod had busted and a piece probably lodged against the shaft and thats how it sheared the key. Thanks for the tip Don. I'll keep that in mind if I have to tear into my tractor which has 9995 hours on it. I now have the oil pan torqued down, the front cover and rocker arms on. Got everything else cleaned up, gaskets scraped off and ready to reassemble. Still need to set the clearance on the rocker arms and hook up some of the hydraulic hoses, set the radiator and fill er up.

Chris