Aftermarket starter/fuel pump problem on Deere engine

[jdemaris]

I recently had a problem with using an aftermarket gear-reduction starter on two John Deere machines. A 350 crawler and a 300B backhoe. Both with the three-cylinder 152 diesels. This might also apply to the fours used in 450s and but I'm not sure. The issue is the fuel pump. The original fuel pump from Deere was an AC with a fuel bowl on it. That fits fine with the new gear-reduction starter. But Deere no longer sells those pumps. They now sell an Airtex tin-can pump and it has a big hunk of metal that sits much lower. It just clears with the original Delco starter but won't fit with the new GR starter. I ground some of the end-cap off the new starter, ground the bottom off the fuel pump and also added a stack of 5 gaskets between the fuel pump and the block. It just barely fits this way.

These new starters are a great deal for $95 brand new. I just found out that Tisco sells a fuel pump that fits just fine. Looks like a European Sofabex pump like Deere used on some French and German tractors.

[Paul45]

I am in need for a new starter on my 350, I have to keep turning key about 10 to 15 times before it will crank over, its worst when hot.
Can you list where you found yours? Thanks

[jdemaris]

I am in need for a new starter on my 350, I have to keep turning key about 10 to 15 times before it will crank over, its worst when hot.
Can you list where you found yours? Thanks

DB Electric. $110 on his Website and sometimes cheaper on Ebay. Often free shipping. Nice thing is the starters are brand new and an improved technology. You don't trade in your old one so you can fix and save for a spare. My original Delco just needed brushes, drive and s solenoid kit. $75 in parts and it takes me a week to get. I bought the new starter first and installed so no down time. $110 everday price and sometimes sale-priced at $95.


http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/p- ... -6570.aspx

NEW JOHN DEERE DIESEL TRACTOR STARTER HIGH TORQUE 140-915 6570

[tjdub]

I have to keep turning key about 10 to 15 times before it will crank over, its worst when hot.

That sounds like it's just the solenoid.

As far as I can tell, there were just 2 different solenoids that were used
on these Delco starters on Deere machines. There are a million part numbers over the years, but they all seem to be superseded by
these two:

Delco 1114524 - SHORT VERSION



Delco 1114356 - LONG VERSION



If in doubt, you could take your old solenoid into an auto parts store and they should be able to match it.

[jdemaris]

I have to keep turning key about 10 to 15 times before it will crank over, its worst when hot.

That sounds like it's just the solenoid.

Yes, the solenoid contact disk or the starter brushes. Both can cause a "click" instead of start until several attempts are made.

The Delco solenoid is designed so you can take it apart, reverse the contacts and get another life out of it. That being said, a brand new solenoid only costs around $15 so fixing is rarely worth the bother unless you're in a pinch and need to fix fast. You just pup the solenoid cap off. flip the contact disk over and rotate the brass lugs so a new unused area of metal is exposed. Starter rebuilt shops rarely replace entire solenoids. Just stick in new contacts and maybe a cap.

If the solenoid contacts are the problem, it will keep on clicking and working for a long time. If the brushes are the problem, things get worse fast.

Note that if you ever buy a new solenoid and are using on a Deere diesel - the return spring is different then for a gas. Just use the original spring that's on the starter already and you'll be fine.

The Delco solenoid # is 1114458.
NAPA # is ST124SB ($14.40) and ECH ST124 ($32.85)
The cheaper one is Chinese and works fine. The Echlin one for twice the price is made in Mexico (so yeah, a member of America).

Application: Delco 5MT, 8MT, 10MT, 20MT, 22MT, 25MT & 27MT Starters

Replaces the following Delco #s, 1114251, 1114252, 1114253, 1114255, 1114256, 1114257, 1114262, 1114263, 1114264, 1114266, 1114268, 1114270, 1114271, 1114272, 1114277, 1114278, 1114279, 1114281, 1114282, 1114283, 1114287, 1114289, 1114290, 1114291, 1114294, 1114295, 1114297, 1114299, 1114304, 1114306, 1114324, 1114326, 1114328, 1114330, 1114333, 1114334, 1114335, 1114336, 1114337, 1114339, 1114340, 1114341, 1114342, 1114343, 1114344, 1114345, 1114346, 1114348, 1114350, 1114351, 1114353, 1114354, 1114356, 1114358, 1114359, 1114360, 1114367, 1114369, 1114380, 1114381, 1114395, 1114396, 1114458, 1114460, 1114462, 1114468, 1118810, 1118811, 1118816, 1118821, 1119781, 1119798, 1119910, 1119919, 1119923, 1119936, 1119946, 1119967, 1119974, 1119986, 1119998, D941

[Tigerhaze]

Yes, the solenoid contact disk or the starter brushes. Both can cause a "click" instead of start until several attempts are made.

If the solenoid contacts are the problem, it will keep on clicking and working for a long time. If the brushes are the problem, things get worse fast.

When the starter on my 2010 diesel started having problems, it clicked like it was the solenoid but it ended up being bad brushes. In hindisght, the clue was that the starter seemed to turn slowly even with a fresh battery. Once I replaced that starter, it turned the engine over about twice as fast and made starting the 2010 a whole lot easier.

[mniebuhr]

I'm working on a JD 1020, same problem, looks identical to the pics you posted. You mention Tisco having a fuel pump that fits, I assume w/out modification. Is it the part #TP-RE42211B (http://www.tractorpartmart.com/us/index ... t_id=11507)? (Looks more similar to the original w/ the bowl on top.) Thanks!

[jdemaris]

I'm working on a JD 1020, same problem, looks identical to the pics you posted. You mention Tisco having a fuel pump that fits, I assume w/out modification. Is it the part #TP-RE42211B (http://www.tractorpartmart.com/us/index ... t_id=11507)? (Looks more similar to the original w/ the bowl on top.) Thanks!

I bought mine through the Yesterdays Tractors Website. It's a Tisco brand. Probably same as what your're getting. Cost me $43 plus $8 shipping and no tax. It has the metal clean-out bown on top and looks exactly like the French made Sofabex pumps that Deere used to sell for ag-tractors. Fits perfect. Here's the description from their Website.

By the way - I know Lavoy sells parts also. I hope I'm not messing with his business interests posting this info.


PARTS JD Fuel Pump - Replacement fuel transfer pump, can be repaired. For diesel tractors: 1020, 1520, 2020, 2030, 2040, 2240, 2440, 2510, 2520, 2630, 2640, 2750, 2950, 2955, 3020, 3150, 3155, 4000, 4020, 4030, 4050(6359TP), 5020, 6030. Can be serviced with repair kit TP-RE42., PN: TP-RE42211B, $42.62, Qty: 1

[Paul45]

Can someone tell me if the starters are the same for Gas engines? I bought a after market stater for my diesel track loader and it cranks fast. I would like to get one for my gas dozer. Thanks Paul

[Jason37756]

Diggs up some old stuff here...

I recently had to replace a starter and a fuel pump on a 350. Both were purchased thru ebay and the pump failed after about 30 minutes. Great design that worked perfect with the longer starter, but junk as far as quality goes.

[Cle Elum John]

Has anyone found a rebuild kit for the original AC pump? Mine is leaking a bit and a new set of gaskets would be in order. I have been unable to find a kit. Those rebuild kits can't be unique. I like having a glass bowl even though it is probably of no real practical use.

John

[Jim B]

John,

First have you checked with Lavoy? He might have or know of something.

Google AC fuel pump kit. There are many sources that come up related to classic vehicles. Some list casting numbers they fit, you might find something ready made or a vendor that will make parts to fit yours.

The bowl is the original look, but it is another place that can leak. Sadly our society is pretty much throw away now. Labor rates (for those that don't/can't do their own work) and parts make rebuilding something like a fuel transfer pump more expensive than a new pump can be produced for. I would change to the new style pump from a known source, i.e. Lavoy or JD, unless I was doing a 100% correct restoration. JMHO

Jim

[Jason37756]

Is the RE42211 and the Airtex 1105 the same pump?

[Jim B]

Did you try cross referencing the JD number on the Airtex site?

[Jason37756]

Just did...they match. I don't need one, but was wondering.