Different 15W40 Types......In a 1984 Dozer.......

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:24 am

Hello again. For my 1984 John Deere 455D it reads in my owners manual to use 15W40 in the engine, transmission, hydraulic system and both steering clutches. Since 1984, oil quality has increased by leeps and bounds. Can I safetly assume that an inexpensive oil today like NAPA Premium Fleet Service 15W40, which is $48.95 for a 5 gallon pail, would greatly exceed all the requirements of oils in 1984? Would you use it rather than Rotella or Delo, etc.? The differenc is about $20.00 per 5 gallons. Thanks, Frank

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:17 am

Frankdozer wrote:Hello again. For my 1984 John Deere 455D it reads in my owners manual to use 15W40 in the engine, transmission, hydraulic system and both steering clutches. Since 1984, oil quality has increased by leeps and bounds.

In general, oil has not gotten better by "leaps and bounds." Most over-the-counter motor oils have less anti-wear protection - not more then they did 5-40 years ago. Off-road and racing oils still have the high level of protection, where-as many emissions-certified diesel oils sold at chain stores like NAPA do NOT.

In 1984 -just about all diesel rated oils had better protection then those do now sold for on-road use.

In regard to your 455D? I have a 455E and a 450C manual. Both say nothing about using motor oil in the HL-R trans or steering clutches. Both my books list HyGuard or equiv.

Maybe Deere has a 15W-40"fits-all" oil now with the proper friction modifiers for wet-clutches. If so, I'm not aware of it.

My local NAPA is having a 15W-40 diesel oil sale right now. Valvoline Blue and it's got the low anti-wear package and I would not use it in a tractor.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:41 am

John had a really good discussion on the use of ZDDP (anti-wear additives) in the evolution of diesel motor oils that you should read (scroll down to the bottom past the diesel fuel stuff):

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... light=zinc

vestor_guy · Post by **vestor_guy** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:08 pm

Every deere I've had specifies hy-guard for the transmission. I did have a 750 dozer that used engine oil in the splitter, hydrostatic fluid for the drives and hy-guard for the hydraulics.

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Sat May 26, 2012 4:56 am

I just referenced the manual again and it does say one of the following: SAE 15W40 between -4 to 122 degrees,

Engine oil meeting API Service CD/SC ( Mil-L-2104C ), CC/SC, or MIL-L-46152 and T02 oil test.

John Deere HY-Gard Transmission and Hydraulic Oils.

So, does this mean I can use regular diesel 15W40 oil such as the least costly NAPA? Or am I getting into trouble............Thanks, Frank

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Sat May 26, 2012 5:31 am

Let me clarify the above statement that I had just written is for the transmission-steering clutches and hydraulic system oil and the final drive. Also the engine except, in the case of the engine use Torq-Gard Supreme instead of Hy-Gard. Thanks, Frank

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Sat May 26, 2012 5:57 am

If I can figure a way to post the sheets from the manual, just to back my previous posts......Thanks, Frank

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Mon May 28, 2012 6:25 am

All the fluids are drained but there is still fluid in the lines going to the trany / steering clutch filter in front of the radiator. Since the fluid is milky from condensation, how do I drain the lines? Compressed air? Or.............Thanks, Frank

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Mon May 28, 2012 8:04 am

Somewhere in this messageboard it was said that synthetic 15W40 fluid ( Amsoil ? ) will not collect any water. I theororize that if I still have milky fluid in the lines and maybe the trany/steering clutch cooler, that if I use Amsoil it will not turn milky again. The water can be drained off via the drain plug. Am I delusional ? Thanks, Frank

Post by **Lavoy** » Mon May 28, 2012 9:27 am

I think the only way you will get rid of all the moisture is to run the crawler and get the oil warm.
As far the NAPA oil, I highly doubt that NAPA would want the resulting lawsuit, and bad publicity from selling a substandard. Aside from that, NAPA does not make oil, they have it made by someone else, who undoubtedly makes it for a lot of other people as well.
Years ago, I worked at a large auto parts chain, and we sold what people thought was an inferior barnd of oil filter. Never could get some people past the idea that they were inferior. Of course, they had no problem buying the twice as expensive well known name brand filter right next to it, and guess who manufactured that filter for that company, and about 20-30 others?
We also sold oil in our own bottles with the store brand on them. Same thing, people didn't want the "inferior" oil. But the same oil company that bottled the store brand oil, also bottled about 3 other brands of oil that we carried, and countless others that we did not.
No, not all oil is the same, but if it meets API specs the same as any other oil, they are equivalent.
Lavoy

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Mon May 28, 2012 11:03 am

Lavoy wrote:
As far the NAPA oil, I highly doubt that NAPA would want the resulting lawsuit, and bad publicity from selling a substandard.

That's a little silly in my opinion. I've bought many "substandard" parts at NAPA and other parts resellers. When they find out they are selling substandard parts - they often change suppliers. That's what NAPA and Sears did recently with the Exide battery company. NAPA switched to Deka for many of their HD batteries.

"Substandard" without proper context has no useful meaning. NAPAs primary focus is automotive. Thus most NAPA stores I've been too push the automotive lines of oil - NOT oils well suited for HD off-road stuff.

The newest emissions-compliant oils ARE indeed substandard when it comes to use in many older and/or HD machines. That also includes many cars and trucks made with flat-tappets.

To the converse - a good HD off-road oil with a high level of ZDDP is indeed "substandard" for use in diesel cars and trucks with modern emissions systems.

And to be clear - you can order many other oils through NAPA. The issue it often what they have in stock in the shelf. That and a general lack of knowledge I've found at many NAPA stores. I recently tried to buy or order some GL-1 trans oil at the NAPA in Alpena Michigan. The owner of the store told me there is NO such thing. So much for expertise. By the way, I went 2 miles down the road and got my Gl-1 oil at Tractor Supply.

One other note. All API oil rating are not backwards compatible. That's a myth often promoted at many auto parts stores.

As to NAPA getting sued? For what? If they sell an oil that meets the specs written on its label - how are they to blame?

By the way - I bought some Castrol Snytec at NAPA recently. The owner of the store told me it is 100% synthetic (I asked). Came home and looked up the Castrol Syntec saftey data sheet. Nope. It is NOT synthetic. 100% based on petroleum from the ground. But in the USA and Canada is it LEGAL to sell non-synthetic oil as 100% synthetic if the oil is a good enough grade.

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Mon May 28, 2012 11:38 am

OK...........Then based on the previous replies to my initial question, I must ask again:
For my 1984 John Deere 455D it reads in my owners manual to use 15W40 in the engine, transmission, hydraulic system and both steering clutches.
What do you recommend to use? Thanks, Frank

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Mon May 28, 2012 1:44 pm

Frankdozer wrote:OK...........Then based on the previous replies to my initial question, I must ask again:
For my 1984 John Deere 455D it reads in my owners manual to use 15W40 in the engine, transmission, hydraulic system and both steering clutches.
What do you recommend to use? Thanks, Frank

I'd go by whatever Deere recommends. I haven't seen that page from your 455D book yet. I have a Deere manual for a 450C , 450D, 455D, and 455E and none show 15W-40 engine oil for use in the trans.. It shows HyGuard or other combo hydraulic/trans common sump oils for much of the machine.

Deere uses a letter code for each part of the crawler and what type of oil it takes. By Deere spec sheets clearly show the following. [E] is for engine oil and [C] is for common sump Hyguard oil:

Engine [E]
Final drive [C]
Transmission [C]
Hydraulic system [C]
Steering clutch housing [C]

Even on Deeres lubricant Webpage - with their best Plus-50 II 15W-40 , it is only listed for being used for engine oil.

Now if you have something printed BY Deere Company that shows different - mabye they've come out with some new engine oil that also has wet-clutch friction modifiers? If so, I've never heard of it and see nothing on the Deere Website about it.

Post your manual page so we can all see it.

Frankdozer · Post by **Frankdozer** » Mon May 28, 2012 4:45 pm

I have 3 pages from my :
John Deere 455D
Crawler Loader
OMT80146 J4 English
Deere Operators Manual
But I can't get them to copy to this reply. How do I get them on this page to show you? Thanks, Frank

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Mon May 28, 2012 6:12 pm

Frankdozer wrote:I have 3 pages from my :
John Deere 455D
Crawler Loader
OMT80146 J4 English
Deere Operators Manual
But I can't get them to copy to this reply. How do I get them on this page to show you? Thanks, Frank

I don't know if this forum has any sort of direct photo posting or not. I just use a free photo hosting site. Upload my photo to there and then get the proper HTML code to post here. I use Photobucket. If you sign up (it's free) you can upload any photo there. Then it will give you several ways to post it. This forum uses "image" code. You just copy it and past it here.

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Different 15W40 Types......In a 1984 Dozer.......

Different 15W40 Types......In a 1984 Dozer.......

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