70's 450 crawler loader starter

[firetech]

Hello to everyone, I am a new member and I think this forum is awesome and very helpful. I recently had trouble with the starter solonoid on the 450's starter. Through this forum I was able to get my machine out of the woods - thanks, but now I need to replace the solonoid or whole starter. My 450 is diesel but through the manual Ive determined it has a gasoline starter (single screw instead of two). Where can I get a new solonoid or complete starter? Any help would be great!

[jdemaris]

Hello to everyone, I am a new member and I think this forum is awesome and very helpful. I recently had trouble with the starter solonoid on the 450's starter. Through this forum I was able to get my machine out of the woods - thanks, but now I need to replace the solonoid or whole starter. My 450 is diesel but through the manual Ive determined it has a gasoline starter (single screw instead of two). Where can I get a new solonoid or complete starter? Any help would be great!

You kind of lost me with the "single screw." What screw??
The Delco starter uses the same solenoid as many GM cars and trucks. Easy to pick up at any auto parts store. It's a common 28MT starter.

NAPA MPE ST124SB, ECH STH107, ECH ST124, RAY SD503, etc. will all fit. Just different brands of the same thing.

You can also get a solenoid repair kit (cap and contacts). ECH STK27

You can buy a brand new gear-reduction starter for $110.

http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/p- ... -6570.aspx

[firetech]

In the manual (workshop) it shows two starters - one for a gasoline engine and one for diesel. While looking at the side of the starters the one for a diesel engine has two philps screws on the side of it and the gasoline has one. I must note the manual is for a 350 not 450 but it works for me - gives alot of useful info.

[jdemaris]

In the manual (workshop) it shows two starters - one for a gasoline engine and one for diesel. While looking at the side of the starters the one for a diesel engine has two philps screws on the side of it and the gasoline has one. I must note the manual is for a 350 not 450 but it works for me - gives alot of useful info.

Okay. You're referring to the big Phillips-head screws that hold the field coils.
Four screws in a gas starter and eight in a diesel. Looking at a mounted starter - you only see one in the gas starter or two in the diesel.

Gas - Delco starter #s 1107339 and 1108319
Diesel - Delco starter #s 1107577, 1107599, 1107863 and 1107871

[firetech]

Thanks jdmaris for the info. I am kinda debating if I should take this opportunity to purchase a new gear reduction starter instead of replacing just the solonoid. Not too bad for 110 bucks. I checked that web site you listed These new starters apparently spin faster then the current model I have on the machine so should be quite an improvement. Ive read that a few guys have done so with no regrets.

[tjdub]

Hello to everyone, I am a new member and I think this forum is awesome and very helpful. I recently had trouble with the starter solonoid on the 450's starter. Through this forum I was able to get my machine out of the woods - thanks, but now I need to replace the solonoid or whole starter. My 450 is diesel but through the manual Ive determined it has a gasoline starter (single screw instead of two). Where can I get a new solonoid or complete starter? Any help would be great!

For the past year, the starter on my 450 has been flakey when the engine is warm. The starter always cranked great, so I assumed it was the solenoid. If it wouldn't start, I would just tap the solenoid with something and away it went. Well, it was obviously the solenoid I thought, so I bought a new one and it seemed to fix the problem, but then the other day when it was warm (on a 90F day), the same problem came back! I thought "Great, I bought a defective solenoid!". I got the test light out and when I hit the button, sure enough, it was getting power when I hit the button, but not activating. I was fixing to pull the solenoid back off, but first jumped that ignition pin to the battery cable with a screwdriver and it took right off. Then I pulled out the push-button switch and jumped the pins for it with a piece of wire and it started right up too!

BAD SWITCH ALL ALONG!

Before you buy anything, I would take a couple of minutes to take the gauge panel off and try jumping the switch plug to see if it's the switch that's causing the problem.

Anyway, here are the JD part numbers for that push-button switch. I had a heck of a time finding it since it doesn't appear to be in the JDParts catalog for the machine: My 4020 has the same switch for the starter and it isn't anywhere in JDParts for that model either. Finally found the JD part number on a 3rd-party parts website

R39554 - push button switch
AR47374 - weatherproof cap for switch

[firetech]

thanks tjdub,
unfortunately I smashed the solonoid end cap while trying the tap trick so I have no choice but to replace it. But the starter does spin alittle slow. If I understand this correctly - this is how the original starters work and that the newer ones are so much better. Iether way will be changing the solonoid first so that I can keep working.

[jdemaris]

Thanks jdmaris for the info. I am kinda debating if I should take this opportunity to purchase a new gear reduction starter instead of replacing just the solonoid. Not too bad for 110 bucks. I checked that web site you listed These new starters apparently spin faster then the current model I have on the machine so should be quite an improvement. Ive read that a few guys have done so with no regrets.

If you are sure you've got a gas starter on a diesel - I'd buy a new aftermarket starter made for the diesel. That diesel engine requires 20-30% more torque to work right in cooler weather, as compared to the gas starter. Needs two batteries in parallel, in cold weather also.

Even with the diesel starters, there are two versions. The one with two visable field coil screws but a housing with a stepped down smaller diameter on the end is the standard diesel starter. Used to be referred to as the "700 amp" starter. Then there's the more powerful diesel starter with no step on the field coil housing. That was referred to as the "900 amp" starter.

When you get intermittent starting, the problem can be many things. Solenoid contact disk, brushes, wiring/switches, and the troublesome wire-harness plug just at/under the rear hood seam. The bigger starters (never used on 450s) have bigger solenoids that won't work well with key switches. They often require separate start relays. But adding a relay to a 450 takes the electrical load off many wiring components.

It's all kind of moot if you've got the gas starter on a diesel. It is inadequate.

[firetech]

Yes I have the two batteries in parallel but wouldn't dream of starting the machine in winter. Figured it spins to slow to start although I never tried it. Do you have the proper part # for the starter I should be looking for or stay with the one you gave me earlier or are they one in the same? Haven't priced out just the solonoid here but ebay has them at 30-40 bucks. Might be a better option to purchase whole starter for 110.

[jdemaris]

Yes I have the two batteries in parallel but wouldn't dream of starting the machine in winter. Figured it spins to slow to start although I never tried it. Do you have the proper part # for the starter I should be looking for or stay with the one you gave me earlier or are they one in the same? Haven't priced out just the solonoid here but ebay has them at 30-40 bucks. Might be a better option to purchase whole starter for 110.

You can get a new solenoid for $20 if you shop around.

The only new gear reduction starter to fit that I know of is:

NEW JOHN DEERE DIESEL TRACTOR STARTER HIGH TORQUE 140-915 6570

Price: $110.30

[firetech]

Thanks to all that replied. I've ordered the new starter - thanks jdemaris. Actually excited to see the machine with proper starter!

[firetech]

Just an undate. The new starter is awesome and has made an incredible improvement in the machine. Well worth the $110. Thanks jdemaris!!!

[flytripper]

Will this starter fit on a straight 350 loader? (Gasoline 3 cyl)