450 B Dash Wiring Layout Needed - starting issue

[srshaw3]

I turned the key, pressed the starter button and got nothing.
The 450B had started very well since my purchase @6 months ago.

As the 450B is @100 miles from my home and I have limited tools when there, my decisions on how to repair are not always based on high quality diagnostics.

I thought perhaps the alternator was not recharging the battery, and not knowing the battery history I decided to replace it. (this was after attempting to jump start from my truck failed). The battery replacement did not resolve the problem.

I pull the dash (wow, is that easy) and found a loose wire that goes down to the starter. From the starter button there were two wires, one goes back to the dash, the other goes to a female connector that was empty, the wire also continues on somewhere else.

Thinking that perhaps the loose wire had come loose from the female spad connector, I attached it. I turned the key and the 450B started. While that was a quite welcome result, it was also incorrect as the starter button should need to be pressed.

So, I am looking for the correct wiring diagram so I can discover where the loose wire should go and reattach it.

I have a lead on where to buy a service manual on ebay. If it has a wiring diagram, I will probbaly get it.

I was very happy to find the 450B to simply wired, and apparently easiy to work on, as that was one of my hopes when buying it.

[Willyr]

The number one problem with starter problems are dirty connections. get the connections cleaned on the battery, the ground, the starter before you get into rewiring anything. You can always bypass the dash by using a piece of metal on the back end of the starters solenoid. Some one whom owns a crawler of that type will be able to tell you how to / or whether you can easily do it.

Corrosion is the worst thing for starter ailments. It doesnt matter if you are on a tractor a crawler or even a big rig. Those connections must be clean!

[srshaw3]

Thank you, I know my post was long, and perhaps you overlooked my statement "Thinking that perhaps the loose wire had come loose from the female spad connector, I attached it. I turned the key and the 450B started. While that was a quite welcome result, it was also incorrect as the starter button should need to be pressed. "

So, I have found the problem, it is the unconnected wire. I need to know where it *was* connected to before when all was well

[Willyr]

The starter button may have been replaced with the key switch. Yet where that wire was not connected, that may have been a clue to how it used to be started.

Normally for a starter button to be wired. The power from the battery has a 20 amp fuse. From there it goes to the key switch. With the key in the off position all the electrical should be dead. This will keep the dumb vandal from putting it in gear and winding over the starter to move the tractor. Key on and you will have power going to your starter button. The button should be a normally off switch. Meaning when no pressure is on it, the switch does not allow power through. The power from the push button should then go to the spade connection on the starter solenoid.

The only power that may bypass the ignition switch would be the light switch.

[srshaw3]

Sorry, we are still struggling to communicate here.
The 450B was working properly until just recently:
1. Turn the key on
2. Press the starter button

Then the non-starting problem came into existence. I arrived at the point where I am now, that there is a disconnected behind the dash. So a wiring diagram is what I would like to ensure I reconnect the wire to where it should be connected.

I do understand the general concepts behind a starter button, but if I don't get a wiring diagram, I anticipate your notes will come in useful.

Thank you.

[Tigerhaze]

Have you tried looking at the online (free) parts diagram for the 450B? It isn't as comprehensive as the technical (service) manual but maybe could give an idea of where the disconnected wire goes. The hyperlink is here:

http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com. ... ervlet_Alt

Search for "450B" under the model number at top left- you want the crawler tractor (1170) even if a loader as that is where the wiring will be. Once there hit the sectional index tab and go to electrical system (75).

[MarkW]

Wiring diagrams are nice to have, but not to sound pessimistic there are usually a few repairs that have been done to machines that may not be how it is written, is it possible for you to take some pictures and post them here? I do not have a 450 but there are several extremely knowledgeable people here who may be able to look at it and tell you right away where the wire goes.

I see where it is 100 miles away, since you can start it now maybe the next time you go just bring a camera, OR you can let people know before hand, then post pics at a library or Mcdonalds and see if you gan get an answer over lunch or something.

[srshaw3]

I was going to try to get there tomorrow late afternoon, hoping to get some work done with it. My big concern is that I want to make sure the starter isn't staying engaged when it is starting. I know in a car I would hear it, but am not sure I would hear it on the 450B.

[Scottyb]

You have a neutral switch on that crawler and it may have been the original problem. (it might have failed or simply a wire came off) There is two wires going down from the dash under the floor panel, mine are white. You still need to get your wiring back to original but then check the neutral switch. Cross those wires if the neutral switch has failed and then try starting.
It is dangerous to leave it like that as the crawler will start in gear. keep the clutch in for safety, and if broken, put in a new neutral switch asap.
Scott

[Scottyb]

srshaw3

How are you making out getting the start button working?
I re read your original post. I likely was off target with the neutral switch suggestion.
I will try again to help.
My start button has one wire going to the ignition switch where it gets power when the key is turned on. The other wire goes through the firewall coming through into the engine compartment through the top wiring harness that has a plug in on the engine side of the firewall. from there it goes down to the neutral switch (white wires on mine)
then back through the firewall in the same harness (they are the two wires on the left side of the harness on mine) once back inside the dash a short loop of wire sends it back out through the firewall back into the engine compartment between the two plug in wiring harness's to the centre one of three screw on connectors. from there the connected wire goes directly to your starter.

hope that helps
Scott

[srshaw3]

I was able to hot wire the start for a while, but more recently I only click a click. I bought a starter/solenoid to put in, and have the old one disconnected but was not able to remove it due to access issues. I am wondering if I need to remove the fuel line to the fuel pump to get it out, and if so, how do I prevent it from draining diesel continuously....?

[Scottyb]

Under the seat there is a fuel shut off valve. Two bolts hold on the fuel pump so it takes just a moment to remove it. Do you have the service manual?