straight 450 oil in clutch housing

vestor_guy · Post by **vestor_guy** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:01 pm

How worn was the seal on the main transmission shaft?

oljoe · Post by **oljoe** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:08 pm

The pump housing was snug when I pulled it off. I had to twist while pulling to get it to come off. I think it may have been the bushing that was snug. I’ll look closer at the seal tonight.
I’m going to check the clutch on the engine tonight also. With that mouse nest in there some of the crap may have washed up between the clutch and flywheel or pressure plate when it was disengaged.
Joe

oljoe · Post by **oljoe** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:49 am

The main clutch, pressure plate and flywheel were full of the nest material. It was stuck in the springs between the disk, pressure plate and the flywheel. The rubber plug that goes over the pressure adjustment plug was missing which allowed the mice into the housing.

Here is my theory about the slipping in reverse. I think the delay in engaging was caused by debris washing into the clutch. The engine seemed to pull down when I engaged the clutch (in reverse) for a few seconds then take hold. The debris caused the slipping. Then when it flattened out or got pushed out the clutch would take hold and move the tractor. There was finally enough material caught in the clutch causing it to slip continually in reverse. Because the slipping occurred in reverse the nest material fibers were laying in one direction on the clutch. When I shifted to forward the fibers would catch on each other and let the tractor pull. “That’s my story and I’m stickin to it”……. at least until I prove myself wrong ; ).

About the seal. The seal was not cracked or gouged but was very hard. It also looks like it may have some wear on the lip. The o-ring on the housing is not an o-ring but a flat rubber washer. That’s probably why they call it a washer in the parts book. There was very little, almost none, endplay in the input shaft of the transmission so I don’t think that I have a bearing problem.

The pressure plate and flywheel looked good after cleaning everything but the clutch plate was a little more questionable. I think I’ll get a new clutch disk and replace the seals and clutch spring and give a try.

Your thoughts?

Thanks
Joe

vestor_guy · Post by **vestor_guy** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:03 am

Ok, good information. The pump sounds fine. As for the clutch, it is certainly prudent to replace the disk.

As for the slipping, the clutch ALWAYS spins in the same direction. The reversing is done in the HLR. My guess as the the additional slippage in reverse would be the higher gear ratio in reverse would put additional loads on the clutch.

What you are doing sounds like a good plan and hopefully will get the crawler back to work.

oljoe · Post by **oljoe** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:05 pm

I don't know what I was thinking. I know that reverse works in the transimission. I'm pleading temporary insanity.

oljoe · Post by **oljoe** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:57 pm

I got the loader back together yesterday. After adjusting the clutch the tractor pulls well in both forward and reverse. I even stuck the bucket in the ground and it would spin both tracks.
BUT
I still have too much of a delay in the shift to reverse. It is like two shifts. The loader will start to move in reverse, when shifted, then it seems to shift again about 2 seconds later. It seems to slip when first shifted and then lock in after a couple of seconds.
Is this normal or will fine tuning the clutch adjustment to make the shift more solid?
There is the needle valve adjustment that I haven’t fooled with but the book says that adjustment is not required unless the manifold has been replaced.

oljoe · Post by **oljoe** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:18 pm

I tried adjusting the needle valve and the shift hesitation didn’t change so I put it to work in the pond. I ran for about 2 hours and everything seemed to work fine.
I noticed some oil drips on the ground and stopped to check the transmission oil. I had lost about a gallon of oil in 2 hours. I crawled under the loader and there is still oil dripping out of the hole in the clutch housing.
I’m not sure where to go from here.

Joe

vestor_guy · Post by **vestor_guy** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:32 am

I would let all the oil drain out of the housing for a day or two and then operate the crawler on level ground for an hour or so and see if it loses more oil. If it does, it is not the seal on the transmission shaft.

As far as I know, the souce of the oil has to be from the front of the transmission housing. Also, that is a lot of oil to be seeping by the seal on the shaft since it is a substantial leak.

Give it the level ground test and if it still leaks, it has to be the transmission pump.

vestor_guy · Post by **vestor_guy** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:23 pm

Has anyone ever used a scope to check out hidden areas? I have a bore scope for my rifle barrels and they work great.

http://www.mile-x.com/provision-pv100-f ... QgodcUcA-w

shinnery · Post by **shinnery** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:56 pm

You may want to look at the one Harbor Freight sells. It is a little cheaper but is also a little larger head and may not get in small holes, I think it fits in most spark plug holes. Nice display screen.
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-in ... 67979.html

bryce

vestor_guy · Post by **vestor_guy** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:18 am

Without removing the engine again, you might invest in or rent one of the fiber optic scopes. Remove the left foot rest and there is a plug where the HLR linkage can be adjusted. I have never attempted it but you may be able to insert the scope and examine the front face of the transmission case and see where the oil is coming from.

oljoe · Post by **oljoe** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:43 am

I finally got to a point that I could run the loader on level ground for a while. I ran for about 4 hours and stopped to fill the transmission once during that time. I added about 1 ½ gallons and another gallon when I quit running. The leak must be under pressure because it doesn’t leak while sitting. Does anyone know where pressurized oil can leak into the clutch housing besides the input shaft seal?

FL450B · Post by **FL450B** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:00 pm

ON MY 450 WITH HLR TRANSMISSION THE SMALL BUSHING WORE OUT AND LET THE SHAFT MOVE SIDE TO SIDE IT HAS OIL PRESSURE THAT WILL DPIP OUT WHEN THE MACHINE IS RUNNING LOOK IN PARTS BOOK TO SEE THE SEAL/ BUSHING PAIN TO PULL MOTOR TO GET TO THE SEAL SEEING THAT IT WAS OUT FROM WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED IN MY MACHINE THE OIL WOULD DROP 3 GALS IN 2-3 HOURS HOPE THIS HELPS

JWB Contracting · Post by **JWB Contracting** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:42 pm

It sounds to me like you may have a second problem in addition to your oil leak. Your transmission should not feel like it slips and then fully engages. You need to go thru the adjustments and pressure checks described in the technical manual. You may have 1 of the HLR clutch packs slipping. We have a low clutch pack to replace in one of our yard 450C loaders that I'm not looking forward to.

Now for the leak, I think your going to have to pull your motor again and diagnose your problem. Could be the seal, gasket, o-ring. I can't remember if its a 2010 or 450 that has an external hose just slightly above the transmission pump. I haven't had to work on a 450 for some time, it's been about 7 350's in a row.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:00 pm

Jason... 2010 has hose in clutch housing for pump output .....i dont know about 450

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straight 450 oil in clutch housing

FRONT SEAL / BUSHING

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