engine rebuild/bigger engine?

[rockslayer16]

hi everyone my name is jesse and i own a 1975 350c dozer 6 way blade 4spd with hydraulic reverser 3cyl diesel engine


i just recently purchased it and the reason for this post is i blew the motor up i changed all the fluids and filters when i first purchased it about a month ago, all was good and it ran pretty good despite not having all that much power. after about 25 hrs of use it started blowing some white smoke out of the over flow tube that comes out/off of the valve cover, so i stopped checked the oil and it was not reading on the dip stick. i changed the oil and hardly any oil came out in the pan put the new oil in and went back to work, about a half hour later as i was backing up the motor came to a sudden stop and locked up. the temp gauge does not work and i think it got hot which caused the head gasket to blow, as i could see coolant that had ran down the block below cylinder #3.

so i pulled the head off and confirmed this, i tried cranking the engine over with the head removed and it did not want to turn over at first but after hitting the starter a few times it turned over. i could see that the cylinder liners looked to be in great shape, no scoring and they still had the 45 degree glaze marks from the hone. it turned over great with the head off and as the cylinder walls looked good i decided to put a new head gasket on and reassemble the engine and see if it would run, unfortunately after i got it back together it did not want to crank over again, got it to fire up for about 10 seconds then it died again and did not want to crank over. i put a new starter and battery in and it still does not want to crank over, so i am assuming there is something wrong internally and am going to have to pull the engine out and get it rebuilt. im guessing it running low on oil is the cause of it , now on to my question.


ok long story out of the way here are my questions that i can not confirm by searching

is this the correct over haul kit that i need for my engine?
http://www.madisontractor.com/ok3041-ma ... 26424.html

if not what engine could be in there (3cyl 152? 164?) and how do i confirm what engine it is?

do any other engines share the same bell housing bolt patterns allowing them to bolt up to my hydraulic reverser?

the 10 acres im working on has some steep grade and a couple times the engine would bog down in 1st gear trying to get up them, seems like a just a tiny bit more power would help, are there any options for me to get more power? not looking to get way too much power so i break the drive train, just a tiny bit more for getting up the hills.

any and all help/ideas/suggestions are very much appreciated, thank you in advance for sharing

[jtrichard]

sounds like you spun a bearing hope it was a rod not a main before you get any kit you will need to get the crank out of it and see whats wrong have it ground and then you will know size under bearings you will need and go from there ... and remember they don't run well without oil

[LeonardL]

Wow dude, you really know how to ruin an engine. No Offense.... I agree that you most likely have spun a bearing and I also agree that... and we will hope it is a rod bearing and not a main bearing.
Your engine identification will be on a metal tag mounted on the engine block right above the starter. If your machine is a true "C" model it will most likely have a 3164 engine in it. However with these machines getting as old as they are, it could have been changed out somewhere along the line and it could be anything from a 3154 to a 3179. You will just have to look for numbers and get back to us.
As far as I know, the only engines that will bolt up to the Deere machines are other Deere engines. You can take a Deere Ag tractor engine and change the bell housing from your dozer application over to the Ag engine and it will bolt up. There will be a couple of other things you will have to change as well, but it can be done.
But... before I would think about any of that, I would take your engine apart and see what has happened. If I was to wager a guess, I would say it will be your number three rod has spun a bearing. Number three is the last to get lube oil and is usually first to give up. But who knows... You will just have to look and see. Then let us know what you have and we will go from there.
As for your power, I would say you had issues before the engine quit. The fact that you went through all of the oil in a short period of time tells me that something was bad wrong. Most likely a oil leak. You are only dealing with just over 40 horse anyway, so there isn't any power to spare. You also need to remember these are finish dozers and not 100+ horse power bull dozers. They are only capable of doing so much.
Let us know what you find and good luck!

[rockslayer16]

thank you both for the replies, i will go ahead and pull the engine so i can get the pan off and inspect what is going on. i will report back with what i find and what it is on the tag above the starter.


im pretty sure i have come to the conclusion that i should have checked the oil before i ran the machine every day

thanks again guys

[rockslayer16]

i got the numbers off the plate directly above the starter

3252dt 06
343297 and either a T or a J


cast into the block above that is

R55110
R55120
R55100

do any of those numbers make sense?

[rockslayer16]

LeonardL nailed it #3 rod bearing spun


i pulled the engine completely apart, everything looks great and the other bearings look almost new, #2 rod bearing has some very faint heat marks in it but looks/feels fine other then that.

unfortunately when the #3rod bearing spun it slightly scored up the crank, im guessing i need to take the crank into a machine shop and have them machine it?

[Scottyb]

I took one in to the machine shop from a 450 and the damage was more than 30 thousandths (Just over) and the crank was not repairable. up to 30 and you should be OK, I was told.
Scott

[Paul Buhler]

In my opinion, now's the time to have the crank reground (if possible). The other bearings and seals are probably cooked a bit and worn too, and while everything is apart, this added expense (including bearings and seals) is pretty small. The rear and front seals will like having a polished seat too. You'll be happier in the drivers seat too knowing that your engine's bottom end has been well repaired.

Not to be a noodge, but get in the habit of parking your machine as level as possible at day's end, and always check its fluids before operating it. It saves aggravation and expense.

Good luck getting your machine back together and running,hopefully for an acceptable price. Paul

[LeonardL]

I'm curious about your engine numbers you found. Is there or was there a "Type" number such as... 3154 or 3164 or 3179 on the tag on the engine? It has been a long time sense I have seen some of the older engine numbers but I'm guessing that if you do not have a type number like I have pointed out, your engine is either out of an older machine or your machine is not a true "C" model. It might also help if you posted your machines serial number located either on the seat support behind your left ankle or on the front of the battery box. If you could let us know what you find it might better identify what you have.
And yes, you will have to have the crank ground and fitted with what ever bearings it takes. Paul and others have already stated this and they are spot on!! That's if you are lucky enough that it will grind out. Personally... I would go ahead and do a complete overhaul on this while you have it out. I wouldn't just smear lip stick on a pig and then call it good. Let us know what you find and good luck with this.

[CatD8RII]

Could the 3252 be a 3152? That would make sense. Also, the later 343297 should be the engine serial number. I'm pretty sure thats late enough to be a 152 in an early 350C.

[LeonardL]

That could very well be... The early "Cs" had that engine in them. And is probably the engine he has. I think I may have even called it a 3154 which is wrong for sure..... I've been away from these too long to remember all the numbers. Besides that... this getting old crap is for the birds!! I'm glad we have young guys like you to keep old farts like me in line!!

[rockslayer16]

i went ahead and ordered a new crank, a rod, all new bearings and seals. i also thought maybe it was a 3152 but the plate clearly lists 3252dt 06 and 343297. it has a hydraulic reverser which would identify it as a true "c" model correct? next time im out in the field i will grab the numbers off the plate on the side of the machine below the seat.

i also cross checked the numbers on the crank and the rod i have and they match the ones on the crank and rod(also cross checked the bearings) that i ordered.

[rockslayer16]

the crank, rod bearings, main bearings, and the connecting rod all interchange between the 152 and the 164, the difference in engine size apparently comes from the pistons which are different. that is according to the parts listed for sale, which i cross checked on several different tractor parts sites. i dont need pistons so i did not order any, i will get the casting numbers off the pistons i have which i believe should tell me whether i have the 152 or the 164 engine, how does this sound to you guys?


thanks again for every ones help

[KenP]

deleted

[LeonardL]

I agree with Ken that you need a Tech manual for your machine. No matter what series it may be. They are your personal best reference for what you have. It wouldn't hurt to have a full set of manuals. That set being... Parts, Tech and Operators manuals. Yes, they are a little pricy but they are "priceless" when it comes to your own peace of mind and overall satisfaction with the machine you own and operate.
Ken is also spot on with the displacement question. The blocks and most of the engine is identical. The difference will be the bore size in the cylinder liners. You could also measure the diameter of the piston you have and get what displacement you have.