Good point, never considered that. The isolator for the early 350 used to be current from Deere, have not checked lately though. It is a similar design to the 1010, but would be designed for the 350 engine, so that may be another alternative.
Lavoy
isolator springs ruined my day
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
I have to totally agree with Ken on this. Ken being a Mechanical Engineer would have the expertise in how these things work. He would also have the insight to the ramifications for changing things when they shouldn't be changed. So... I would listen to him.
I admit I was intrigued by this "Spring Plate" as an alternative for the "Five Spring" Isolator. However after a little research of my own before I really stuck my foot in my mouth, I found out that Deere had this "Spring Plate" on the early 350s. Then they changed them over to this "Five Spring" style Isolator because of the very issues that Ken has mentioned.
Now!... I know there isn't a great deal of respect on this forum for the good people at John Deere! Particularly their engineers and their designs and what it costs for OEM parts.
I have on more than one occasion read on this forum where the comment was and I quote, "How Poor The Design Is" and "How High The Parts Are".
I have had the pleasure of meeting a few of these John Deere engineers and one design team while they were in the process of designing some of their equipment. These people, mostly men but a few women were very intelligent people, with a lot of "Common" sense and they knew what they were doing.
The design team I met was made up of Engineers of all aspects of Design, Mechanical, Hydraulic and Electrical engineering. They also had Equipment Operators and Technicians as well as representatives from the respective Trade Unions. They had every base covered by at least three people on each base as well as the outfield. They then took what they designed to a Test facility where these designs are tested to their limits. Both in Laboratory and Field tests. They also tested them against their competitors designs of similar equipment.
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Deere as a company and these people who put together a machine that is still doing the job when most of their competitors have long been melted down and rebuilt into a washing machine somewhere.
I take real exception when someone makes the comment about how "Poor" the design is and how "High" the parts are. I have on more than one occasion scratched my head at some of the designs that Deere and others like Caterpillar have come up with. I'm a mechanic not an Engineer. It's my job to work on them and not to design them. However!!! These machines are forty years old! How long do you expect them to last? How long do they have to operate without repairs being made before you will give them the respect they deserve?!? When you buy them they are old machines. They're not new right out of the box! Yes!... They are expensive and yes the parts are high! But it isn't just Deere! Go and price a set of steering clutches and Brake bands for a 931 Caterpillar Loader. Then tell me how "Cheap" they are and how "Great" they are designed in comparison to Deere! Personally!? I will take Deere hands down to anyone else! Don't get me wrong, I like Cat equipment!
This Five Spring Isolator has been around for a long time and has served the machine and the customer well. Yes they are funky looking to look at and they are noisy while they are in operation. But they work and they work well.
I have worked on these 350s for over forty years. From the "Straights" to the "D" series. I don't know much but what I do know is 350s. At one time where I worked we had 46 350Bs and 350Cs. They all had this Five Spring Isolator. That's a lot of springs. Collectively that is a lot of hours on this design. Out of all of them, in the years I was around them, I had two sets cause issues from broken springs. I also had two sets that were new and they broke almost as soon as I installed them. Deere, admitted the issue and recalled that run of springs because there was a flaw in them. A lot of companies would have made us eat the things.
So... As Ken has pointed out, you can spend a lot of time, money and effort changing this over to something cheaper and "Better" as you see it. I think you would be money ahead to stay with what you have and fix your machine. Or, you may "Fix" the machine and then you will get to take it apart and "Fix" the machine again.
Like Ken, this is my opinion. I fully expect to be challenged on this and that's okay. All I'm saying is give a little respect for the people and the machine. After forty years I think they deserve it. >>> LeonardL
I admit I was intrigued by this "Spring Plate" as an alternative for the "Five Spring" Isolator. However after a little research of my own before I really stuck my foot in my mouth, I found out that Deere had this "Spring Plate" on the early 350s. Then they changed them over to this "Five Spring" style Isolator because of the very issues that Ken has mentioned.
Now!... I know there isn't a great deal of respect on this forum for the good people at John Deere! Particularly their engineers and their designs and what it costs for OEM parts.
I have on more than one occasion read on this forum where the comment was and I quote, "How Poor The Design Is" and "How High The Parts Are".
I have had the pleasure of meeting a few of these John Deere engineers and one design team while they were in the process of designing some of their equipment. These people, mostly men but a few women were very intelligent people, with a lot of "Common" sense and they knew what they were doing.
The design team I met was made up of Engineers of all aspects of Design, Mechanical, Hydraulic and Electrical engineering. They also had Equipment Operators and Technicians as well as representatives from the respective Trade Unions. They had every base covered by at least three people on each base as well as the outfield. They then took what they designed to a Test facility where these designs are tested to their limits. Both in Laboratory and Field tests. They also tested them against their competitors designs of similar equipment.
Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Deere as a company and these people who put together a machine that is still doing the job when most of their competitors have long been melted down and rebuilt into a washing machine somewhere.
I take real exception when someone makes the comment about how "Poor" the design is and how "High" the parts are. I have on more than one occasion scratched my head at some of the designs that Deere and others like Caterpillar have come up with. I'm a mechanic not an Engineer. It's my job to work on them and not to design them. However!!! These machines are forty years old! How long do you expect them to last? How long do they have to operate without repairs being made before you will give them the respect they deserve?!? When you buy them they are old machines. They're not new right out of the box! Yes!... They are expensive and yes the parts are high! But it isn't just Deere! Go and price a set of steering clutches and Brake bands for a 931 Caterpillar Loader. Then tell me how "Cheap" they are and how "Great" they are designed in comparison to Deere! Personally!? I will take Deere hands down to anyone else! Don't get me wrong, I like Cat equipment!
This Five Spring Isolator has been around for a long time and has served the machine and the customer well. Yes they are funky looking to look at and they are noisy while they are in operation. But they work and they work well.
I have worked on these 350s for over forty years. From the "Straights" to the "D" series. I don't know much but what I do know is 350s. At one time where I worked we had 46 350Bs and 350Cs. They all had this Five Spring Isolator. That's a lot of springs. Collectively that is a lot of hours on this design. Out of all of them, in the years I was around them, I had two sets cause issues from broken springs. I also had two sets that were new and they broke almost as soon as I installed them. Deere, admitted the issue and recalled that run of springs because there was a flaw in them. A lot of companies would have made us eat the things.
So... As Ken has pointed out, you can spend a lot of time, money and effort changing this over to something cheaper and "Better" as you see it. I think you would be money ahead to stay with what you have and fix your machine. Or, you may "Fix" the machine and then you will get to take it apart and "Fix" the machine again.
Like Ken, this is my opinion. I fully expect to be challenged on this and that's okay. All I'm saying is give a little respect for the people and the machine. After forty years I think they deserve it. >>> LeonardL
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
I am a Professional Engineer that does civil site design work and wanted to expand a little on what Leonard said. Engineers are given a number of design criteria and have to come up with the solutions. When they do so, they is always going to be tradeoffs so something in the design is going to have some drawbacks over other issues that are handled well. Also hindsight is 20/20 and not all potential issues are going to be contemplated- the key is how well the "lessons learned" are retroactively addressed in past designs and proactively addressed in future designs.
I don't know any Deere engineers, but based on the "fixes" they roll out for newer models and retroactive fixes it does seem like they are doing due dilligence on design review and revisions.
Cost are another matter- as the engineers cannot control what the business side of the company does on part markups
I don't know any Deere engineers, but based on the "fixes" they roll out for newer models and retroactive fixes it does seem like they are doing due dilligence on design review and revisions.
Cost are another matter- as the engineers cannot control what the business side of the company does on part markups
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
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cowboy4996
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:12 pm
- Location: Prineville OR
I've talked to some of the Deere engineers over the years and found most of them to be quite open and helpful. They are quick to point out the "tradeoffs" mentioned in an earlier reply. The corporate "beancounters" can over ride the engineers designs in a lot of cases and utilize a cheaper method that they may feel "works just as well....".'
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rockslayer16
- 420 crawler
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:32 pm
got the 1010 disk today and one of the mounting holes crosses paths with one of the dowel pin holes no matter which way you spin it, i dont want to try and weld it up and drill/tap through it so im going to order new springs, retainer clips, dowel pins, pilot bearing, and bolts to put the isolator back in. if it fails again i will go back to the drawing board, i hope i did not ruffle too many feathers with my thoughts on modifying the OEM design. thank you everyone for your comments, ideas, and suggestions they are greatly appreciated.
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