450 trouble shooting tips?

[rdobb]

I have a straight 450, been working it in the evenings pulling wood. To start it turned great both ways. After a couple of evenings of skidding turning right became a huge problem. Adjusted it and now on level ground it works about 70% of the time, less if your pulling a lot of weight. The faster you are tracking on flat ground the better it does.

If your going uphill it turns great, pulling a load or not. Going downhill it barely turns at all unless you have some speed.

Does this indicate any certain worn parts?

Thanks Randy

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Randy-

Since you sometimes have steering on each side, the symptoms point to problematic (misadjusted/worn/contaminated) steering clutches, problematic brakes, or both.

Turning crawlers with a mechnical (dry) steering clutch depends on both the steering clutch and steering brake- they work together in tandem. If misadjusted they will not work right in all circumstances. Did you follow the sequence in the book, and what did they look like when you opened up the inspection plate? Also did you see any dripping fluids in the steering clutch housing?

[rdobb]

I had somebody adjust them as I watched the first time. Everything was clean and dry though.

[Tigerhaze]

IF you know that the person adjusting them followed the correct adjustment procedures, then you can suspect that you have an issue with worn clutch fiber discs/steels and/or brake bands, although the clutches sound like the more predominant issue.

As mentioned before the clutch and band works in tandem. When you pull the steering lever partway, the steering clutch (series of fiber discs sandwiched with steel discs) open from the pressure plate/throwout bearing and cause that side's drive to become disengaged much like a clutch on a car or truck. That allows the other track (assuming it is not slipping) to power the turn- steering clutch disengagement causes a sweeping turn. When you pull the steering lever fully, it causes the brake band on the steering clutch drum to engage and allows for more abrupt turns by the power form the opposite track.

Based on your initial description before adjustment, it sounds like at least your left steering clutch was slipping more but probably both sides are slipping. When there are problems turning right, it is because the left track is not engaging power as it should through the steering clutch to drive the crawler to the right. The fact that the crawler makes turns only part of the time and even less so with a load tells me that the steering clutches are slipping and it is more noticeable when a load is put on it. The turning uphill and downhill is probably more of a function of the brake bands grabbing than the condition of the clutches.

Since you think adjustment was done properly, the steering clutches would be suspect. Normally they slip due to oil contamination- that could still be the case. Just because it looked dry doesn't mean inside it is, and the fact that it worked initially leads me to think that oil came out on them as you worked the crawler more. Rust can also cause problems with the steels. In any case you will likely need to pull the steering clutches to find out. I believe on the straight 450 you can pull the clutches without removing the final drive but I think similar to the 2010 you have to split the track and remove the sprocket to pull the pinion behind it (others can confirm).

If oil contamination is found, it is likely the seals on the final drives are leaking and then you would need to pull the finals to replace the seals to keep oil contamination from happening again. Once fiber discs are oil contaminated, it is difficult to renew them without having the issue again as they absorb oil like a sponge.

Lavoy can get you replacement steering clutch parts cheaper than Deere, but better quality than what you would find on EPay or other places. The parts quality does matter for this application.

[Tigerhaze]

I forgot to mention that there is a pretty simple "road" test that you should perform to confirm my suspicions about the steering clutches before you tear apart.

Find or make a large dirt pile, bluff, or other immoveable object and drive the cralwer blade or bucket slowly into it in low gear. You should see each track continuing to move and/or the engine bog down significantly. If you push into the pile and the tracks stop moving, you know the steering clutches are slipping.

[jtrichard]

sounds like brakes (probably oil) the working great uphill would lend to that diagnosis.... on my 2010 i had brakes that you could put every thing you could pull on the lever and the brake would not "grab" no friction at all ....pulled it the lining looked great put new lining on it and then it worked great

[rdobb]

I pulled about 36 inch diameter red oak up over a slate bank yesterday, it was quite a pull for the little thing. I cut probably two foot deep ruts while working it. There was no slip, both tracks pulled as they should. What little I know about the workings of a crawler setup I was sorta thinking brake bands after seeing it pull like that without slipping. By the way I really appreciate all of your help.

[jtrichard]

if there was ANY clutch slippage one or both tracks would have stopped with that kind of load on them ...time for brake job.... i dont know on 450 if you can get the brake bands out without pulling the clutch/tracks/sprocket or not....but on 2010 i know you CAN get the bands out with clutch in