JD 450 track slipping

[2manytrucks]

haha... dont you just love the people that say "get the manual" that really isn't what internet forums are all about. they are about helping each other.

[Scottyb]

2manytrucks,
As a member of this site I have learned that a true beauty of it is.... that, most contributors here are giving help beyond where the manuals leave off.

[2manytrucks]

and that is the way it should be.

[jtrichard]

i agree with scotty 100%....on a lot of things on these crawlers its much better to have a book and read it for yourself rather than try to understand it from the forum BUT there is a lot of SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS knowledge on here that is far beyond what any book has

[Nicetoy]

Such as, one adjustment instruction in the FSM states "turn 3 detents" what the hell does that mean?

[jtrichard]

the brake band adjustment is a bolt that has a detente on it it detentes every half turn

[Nicetoy]

So I adjusted the brakes/steering clutch per the FSM. The slipping issue is much improved, I have found it will slip on a few circumstances. My question now, as this is the only dozer I've ever operated. When you pull back on the steering lever, should is stop that side on on a dime, or should you have to pull back far and have a "gradual" braking/clutch action? I'm wondering if now the other side has to be done to match.

[jtrichard]

yes you should get a "gradual" braking/clutch action ....if it is still slipping you still have a problem

[oljoe]

You should adjust both sides at the same time. As far as the braking, the harder you pull the more pressure you put on the drum. Just like brakes on a car or truck. If you pull the lever back hard and quick that track should stop and the dozer should turn. If you pull back with a little less pressure you can make a more gradual turn. Pulling the lever halfway will disengage the clutch on that side and not apply the brake.
Both levers should pull back the same distance. If not the adjustment is not correct.

[jtrichard]

the issue he has is the brake (grabbing) as soon as it starts to contact the drum

[LeonardL]

haha... dont you just love the people that say "get the manual" that really isn't what internet forums are all about. they are about helping each other.

I haven't commented here yet because I felt like I didn't need to throw my dog into a fight that had no business in the fight to begin with. However! Sometimes the big dog needs to show up and even things out a little. I have backed off from contributing of late because people have come here wanting answers and when myself and others tell them to "Get A Manual" they want to get mad and tell us we don't know what we are talking about! " That anyone can get a manual"! I take great exception to that statement!
There is a basic reason why the professionals who contribute on this site say to you people to get a "Manual" first! You have to have a base to start from. That base is a " Tech Manual"! Whether you like it or not!
If you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are about to work on and you do not have a proper and current Tech Manual to reference to, then you will have no idea what we "The Professionals" are trying to explain to you! The first thing I do is get the manuals out on what ever I'm about to work on. Even if I have worked on that particular thing a hundred times! I do this because I don't want any mistakes. For a Mechanic, a mistake is money! If I have questions I go to someone who knows the machine better than I do. But I guarantee you, that other professional is going to ask me what does the manual say about it!
I can explain something to you a hundred times and you wont get it. But if you have a good manual with illustrations and "Pictures", then you stand a better chance of understanding what is being explained to you. We say "Get A Manual" for good reason! We don't just say it because we don't know what we are talking about! Carpenters have an old saying... "Measure twice and saw once". Mechanics have the same thing only it's "Read twice and repair once".
I came to this forum as a retired professional with the intention of trying to help people with issues that I have had experience with. At no charge either I might add! This is free life long information for you to tap into. Now I have just about decided to quit and let everyone figure things out just like I did! The hard way! And that hard way started with "Reading a Tech Manual". If you can't read then find someone who can and have it read to you. There is no shame in that if it helps! I do however suspect that you can read or you wouldn't be here on this forum!
I am ready to quit this forum as others already have. Professionals, with tons of knowledge have completely backed away because you guys don't have the common respect to listen to what they have to say. So... for them and myself I say this... You are on your own! You Figure it out!

[CatD8RII]

Not to poke a hornets nest here but I'd like to say one thing:

Allot of people on this forum are probably familiar with Green Magazine, for those that aren't its a JD only tractor magazine.
In the back of GM you will find a section called "Mr. Thinker" . It is basically a tech support , or ask the magazine section where subscribers write in with problems they have.

Anyone that reads the magazine knows the first thing Mr.Thinker asks is if the questioner has or has read his service manual. He has some pretty colorful responses to people that either ask a question thats right in the manual or don't even have one.

[FL450B]

AFTER REPAIR CARS TRUCKS HARLEYS JAP BIKES AND CRAWLERS I JUST HAVE ONE THING TO ADD TO THE LIST OF GET THE MANUAL LOTS OF OTHER SHOPS CALL ME EVERY DAY TO ASK ABOUT DOING A REPAIR WHY THEY ALL KNOW THAT AT MY SHOP I HAVE MITCHELL AS A SERVICE MANUAL FOR MOST CARS AND TRUCKS SO AFTER SPENDING 300.00 PER MO. FOR SOFTWARE I STOPPED FIX EVERY ONES ISSUES FROM OTHER SHOPS NOW IF SOMEONE CALLS ME I HAVE THEM COME TO THE SHOP AND HELP PAY FOR THE SOFTWARE AT 10 BUCK PER LOG ON SOON MOST OF THE CALL STOPPED SO I COULD WORK ON MY IN SHOP ISSUES NOT TO SAY THAT I HAVE DONE MANY REPAIRS WITH OUT LOOKING AT THE MANUAL BUT SOMETIMES SMALL NOTES THAT THEY GIVE CAN STOP WAISTING TIME IN MY SHOP AS WITH OTHER SHOPS TIME IS $$$$$$$$$$ WE HAVE A LOT OF POSTS ON THIS SITE AND ALL ARE WILLING TO HELP BUT I SAY HELP YOUR SELF FIRST AND GET THE MANUAL GOOD LUCK NOTE BEEN SPINING WRENCHS FO 30 YEARS LIKE OTHERS HERE NO SMOKE AND MIRRORS HERE

[Jack-the-Ripper]

A couple more thoughts I've had recently about slipping clutches:

When I rebuilt the 450B (dry clutches) I found my steels and fibers were scratched and pitted in places. I reused them, thinking they'll work good enough, which would be OK for a car that mostly drives on level ground. When we are pushing stumps or dirt, at some point, the clutches might slip - the greater the available clutch surface area, the more load before they slip. So when the clutch packs are out, consider how much surface area is lost to divots, and how much less than 100% of push power you are willing to live with.

Also, if the clutch pressure plate fingers are not evenly adjusted it will act the same as the divots mentioned above. You will not get the maximum working surface area (and the pressure that empowers the friction), and thus limit your pushing force.

I was able to adjust my pressure plate without using the "factory" tool by cobbing together the equivalent with some pieces of sheet metal, small c-clamps and spacer blocks.

The disadvantage of the 450B's dry steering clutches over the 450Cs oil immersed clutches is that the "B" is vulnerable to water vapor intrusion which can limit the travel of the clutch disengaging shaft that pushes on the throwout bearing (my situation). It could be that this shaft is keeping the linkage mechanism from fully releasing the pressure plate. Oops, I think that makes it three thoughts.

[jtrichard]

The biggest thing you have to watch when using a used clutch pack is how much the fibers are wore down ( much more critical then a few scraches and pit holes) and no rust and the steels are very flat ...when you put in clutch pack and there is not much ajustment/pressure plate travel left then you wont get much more use out of it ...if each fiber is down about .010 and all is clean (steel and fibers) then you can add one more steel about .090 to make up for the wear and its just like new i have done this many times ....on one of my 2010s i did this about 25 years ago and its still working great.... one more thing i respectfully disagree with jack-the-ripper.... off level fingers will cause uneven release... if you have one "low" finger when you pull the steering lever you could get "drag" on one third of the pressure plate causing hot spots on the steels and very poor release, the apply pressure would not be affected much