New to me 450 loader ?'s

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:10 am

I bought a 450 straight loader which has been repowered with a turbo motor.
It has been sitting a few years, looks to have not been abused.I crawled underneath checked for loose and broken bolts and found none. I started it, ran well, but noticed water pump was seized. Also tried hydraulics and had a hose blow but everything seemed to work in the short time I let it run. Price was right so I can afford to put some money into it without throwing it away in case of something major popping up. I have to change hose and do water pump before bringing it home. About 2 hours away. Its sitting out in a field
Can I pull water pump without removing nose piece?
Where is neutral safety switch located ,4 speed trans or hlr?
What size battery do they use as I pulled one out of my truck to start it.
Been reading the forum for a few months to understand what problems are and fixes. It was very helpful when looking at others prior to buying this one.
Any help or suggestions welcomed.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:21 pm

Welcome. I believe you're going to have to pull the nose and radiator to get the fan off. Neutral Safety switch will be located on the left had side of the trans. Mine which is a turbo version calls for BCI group 30H, but, I went to Sams Club and got one that provided the best cranking amps, only using one as well.

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:28 am

I see that there is reference to some tilting the nose forward. Would this be an option to get to the water pump. I don't have access to anything where it is to lift the nose off. If at home I could, but have to get it there first. Radiator was dry when I looked at it so I filled it up before starting it, I am hoping maybe water in it for a while may loosen bearing (if its rust) to allow it to turn long enough to load and unload. I loosened belt to keep from burning it off but don't want to run it very long that way.
I am trying to limit the number of trips back and forth but will do what I have to do.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:38 pm

good idea to loosen the belt because the only way to replace the belt is to pull the pump forward enough to slip a new belt between the shaft and lower pulley. good luck

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:51 pm

i cant believe that you would have to pull the nose/rad. off to get the water pump off... i have a 2010 and it may not be easy but you can pull the pump off with out taking any thing off but the fan and belt

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:07 pm

I'll check it out next weekend when I go back to change hose and do some other things.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:34 am

jtrichard wrote:i cant believe that you would have to pull the nose/rad. off to get the water pump off... i have a 2010 and it may not be easy but you can pull the pump off with out taking any thing off but the fan and belt

Be that as it may, this is what the "Manual" says.
Removal
Drain Coolant
Remove Radiator
Remove fan belt. Remove cap screws attaching water pump to engine and remove water pump.

I've looked at mine because at some point I'm going to have to do the same thing and I can tell you there isn't a lot of room to get at it.

77 Ford · Post by **77 Ford** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:01 am

After being in the front of mine several times I would not even consider replacing the water pump without removing the nose. All you need is a com-a-long and a heavy piece of metal to reach across the loader arms. I think I can have my nose off in about 20 minutes.

1) Start loader raise arms and lock with loader arm locks (mine are 4" angle about 2' long)

2) I have a piece of 4" angle that will reach across the extended arms.

3) Chain thru the radiator fill cap hole to the com-a-long.

4) remove bolts , don't forget the ones in the belly pan

5) Crank it up and pull it forward while letting it down

6) Profit

Trust me I know it sounds intimidating but it's just like a thrown track you dread it till you've done it a couple of times. Now it's not harder than changing the oil in my truck.

I'd bet 100 bucks you'll spend 4 or 5 times as long trying to reach up inside there and get that water pump off vs pulling the nose.

For the record you can tilt the nose but it's 85% of the work involved with removing IMHO.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:17 am

I've actually thought about drilling and tapping the nose for an eye at the balance point to get it off easier.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:58 am

DrLoch wrote:
jtrichard wrote:i cant believe that you would have to pull the nose/rad. off to get the water pump off... i have a 2010 and it may not be easy but you can pull the pump off with out taking any thing off but the fan and belt
Be that as it may, this is what the "Manual" says.
Removal
Drain Coolant
Remove Radiator
Remove fan belt. Remove cap screws attaching water pump to engine and remove water pump.

I've looked at mine because at some point I'm going to have to do the same thing and I can tell you there isn't a lot of room to get at it.

leave it to engineers to learn less as they make things "better"

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:56 pm

Hi,

Well, it is better. Now more junk can fall on it without wrecking things like will happen on my 420. Now, I have never dropped junk on my 420s nose, but then it is a personal machine.

Employees don't give a hoot, hence a 5 ton nose guard design!

Just wait for Digitup to chime in with some stories!

Stan

jsal · Post by **jsal** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:08 pm

I have a350 dozer and have the pulled water pump off without removing nose piece replaced seal and put back together this a dozer not a loader.Its tight a job .My manual also says tilt nose forward and remove radiator just did it this spring when I changed my fan back to the blower one.

JIM

Paul Buhler · Post by **Paul Buhler** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:10 pm

Hi: I'll second 77 Ford's comments. In the past, I removed the nose on 350 and 450 dozers in the field on several occasions. I used a tree stem ( ~3" saplings) tripod lashed together to hold a chain hoist and ran the hook through the radiator cap opening back to the chain. Take up the slack, loosen the bolts and hoist away. It only need to be moved out of the way a bit to get to the other parts. The tripod can be "walked" a bit if needed. Loader arms and 77 Ford's experience sounds good too. With a clear shot, there are fewer skinned knuckles. broken off bolts, swearing episodes and generally a better, more thorough, well done, end result. When it's time to remount the nose, the tripod allowed for some wiggling to get things lined up while supporting the weight safely.
Good luck - happily you shouldn't have to do this too often. BTW, if I remember correctly, this is a good time to check out the hydraulic pump disconnect (if it has one) and free it up while you're in there. Paul

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:24 pm

Stan, thanks for sticking up for us engineers

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:51 pm

Does any one have part#'s for parts to rebuild water pump?
Thanks for all your help so far.

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New to me 450 loader ?'s

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