High Charging voltage 450C

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:16 am

I was using the loader over the weekend because it hasn't rained in my area of North Carolina in about a week... I noticed that the battery voltage was high 16 - 17 volts which tells me the regulator isn't regulating. I need to see if I have the alternator with the regulator attached or the separate regulator.
Managed to boil some of the water out of the battery... Has anyone used anything other than a JD/Motorola type regulator?

johnwesley · Post by **johnwesley** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:22 am

I put a one wire GM alt. on my 450C best I remember it bolted right up. I keep hearing about having to rev engines way up to start charging. I have mounted several and never had to rev much past idle. So what's the problem, you can't work at idle.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:40 pm

I was considering the same thing. I just converted my Ferguson TO35 to a 3 wire. Cost of a alternator versus the cost of a regulator are close to the same number. Did you have to change the alternator pulley? What I like about the 3 wire is the sensing wire. Could use one of the wires in the existing harness for that and the idiot light.

It's raining,snowing, freezing rain today so I'm not going to go out to look at it today.

johnwesley · Post by **johnwesley** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:45 pm

I did not change the pulley and it has no problem charging. I have done several three wire conversions on 12V farm tractors that the original alternators went bad (big bucks for original), but on this one I needed it running so did it quick and dirty.

Been on a couple years with no problems. As I said, I do not remember doing any thing but bolting it on. Belt fit and everything.

ferroequinologist · Post by **ferroequinologist** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:21 am

Most everything I have with the old generators or oddball alternators or regulators I convert over as soon as I get any trouble out of it.

I have great luck going to u-pull-it auto salvage yards. I don't know how many times I've come across a vehicle that has a brand new alt and regulator, or just one or the other, then it was junked for some other reason. I get the alt for less than $20 and the reg sometimes $5 or free. If it turns out the reg is junk, you have it to take to the autoparts store and say, 'give me one of these' most are common and cheap.

Sometimes you get lucky and get a one wire someone upgraded to for the same price. I go every month or so. Even if one dies in a year, I have a couple more similar ones on the shelf. Then I take the bad one back to the slavage yard and they usually give me some money for it!

Cheap and easy, and its recycling too!

MarkW · Post by **MarkW** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:40 pm

I replaced mine with a Delco internal regulator alternator, they are between $30 (7127- 1 year warranty)and $65 (DLG7127M), and I bought the cheapest one with a lifetime warranty (DL7127M) from Autozone, the more expensive ones have a lifetime warranty.

Anyway, buy one of those and an "electrical pigtail -
Part Number: MT0132,Alternate Part Number: 37201 and wire it up and not have any more problems. I had to grind a tiny bit out from my pulley to get it to fit but not much.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:30 am

MarkW wrote:I replaced mine with a Delco internal regulator alternator, they are between $30 (7127- 1 year warranty)and $65 (DLG7127M), and I bought the cheapest one with a lifetime warranty (DL7127M) from Autozone, the more expensive ones have a lifetime warranty.

Anyway, buy one of those and an "electrical pigtail -
Part Number: MT0132,Alternate Part Number: 37201 and wire it up and not have any more problems. I had to grind a tiny bit out from my pulley to get it to fit but not much.

That's about the price of the regulator without shipping. Thanks for the info I think I will do that. Weather is crappy in my area of NC right now. Ice on the trees which means I will be having to go out and clean up the mess this weekend. Suppose to get into the 60's tomorrow and sunday..

Do you know if that connector have the diode in it ?

MarkW · Post by **MarkW** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:37 pm

Hi there, sorry about the delay in my reply!

Anyway, here is a picture I grabbed off the internet:

You can see the terminals in the alternator, the markings, and also the pigtail.

When you plug in the connector, the red wire (note that a connector may have different colors, but one wire will always be larger than the other) in the picture will go from the terminal #2 to the post that also has the wire running to the battery. The thinner wire (white in the picture) will go from terminal #1 to the accessory terminal on the ignition switch, or in the case of your crawler it will go to the wire that now goes into your regulator and is energized when your ignition is switched on. And then just connect the charging lead up and you are done. Any extra wires from your regulator just tape over the ends and you are finished. As I mentioned, the pulley on my crawler was slightly too small so I had to grind it out slightly with a stone on a die grinder, only took a couple of seconds so I could have done it in a couple of minutes with a round file if I did not have a die grinder.

Hope that makes sense! If it does not let me know and I'd be happy to take a picture of the setup on my dozer for you.

Mark

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:45 am

Thanks for the info. I already ordered a 5/8" pulley, once I get the pulley in hand I'll pick up an alternator from Autozone.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:02 pm

you will need either an idiot light or a diode on ter.1 to work properly

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:32 am

jtrichard wrote:you will need either an idiot light or a diode on ter.1 to work properly

Thanks, you are correct. For others reading this post the #1 is the wire used to power the field of this series alternator , if either the diode or the light is not in the circuit when you shut off the key voltage from that wire would still be live and in the case of my loader provide power to the shutoff solenoid so the motor would not shut off. I just went trough this on my Ferguson tractor, the exception being, the CAV/Roosa on the Ferguson has a manual shutoff lever.

MarkW · Post by **MarkW** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:30 pm

You will only need to install a diode if you wire it into the ignition circuit and not the accessory circuit. If you connect it to the wire going to your existing external regulator that goes on and off with the key you will be OK, unless someone else has rewired your dozer in the last quarter century.

However, if you wire it into the circuit that includes the fuel shut off solenoid then yes, you will have an issue since the alternator will continue to generate for as long as it turns but while you should have continuity between the regulator switched lead and the fuel shut off solenoid with the ignition on, there should be no continuity between those two circuits when the key is in the off position.

shinnery · Post by **shinnery** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:34 am

On my Minnie-Mo M670 there is no wire on term. 1. After I start the tractor I just jumper across both terminals momentarily and it will charge the rest of the day. And sometimes the next day if I use it again that soon. So far it has worked for me.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:49 am

MarkW, You are correct with regards to the field wire to the regulator. No diode or light required in this case since the field wire is on the acc side of the switch. I'm going to check the regulator connector to make sure the sense line is getting battery voltage. If it is and the voltage is still high the issue would point to a bad regulator at which point I'll probably change the alternator to the delco series you mentioned.

DrLoch · Post by **DrLoch** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:07 am

Replaced the Deere alternator with the one Mark suggested on Sunday, all is well now. Voltage is a steady 14.5 at the battery, a little higher at the bat connection on the alternator. I ran the sense line to a terminal that is powering the switch. I changed the pulley to a 5/8" width pulley and the belt fits correctly. Only thing I noticed is that I think I should have clocked the the sense and field connection 90 degrees CCW looking at the back of the alternator. The filed and sense wire are in a position to potentially get ripped off where they are.

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High Charging voltage 450C

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